The Mark of Cain

Nice_Guy_Eddie said:
As a serving soldier who has been to Iraq within the last year, i can honestly say that was a load of drivel, beginning to end. Im not complaining about its content, but the dialogue, behaviour and actions of the soldiers were simply absurd. A well qualified military advisor would have prevented 'mark of cain' from being utter tripe.

I sat and watched hoping to see thought provoking stimulatling tv, only to be let down. Any other soldier knows what im talking about. For instance, the rpg contact was baffling. Having been in that situation several times myself, to see soldiers not following simple drills that are second nature out there that was particulary hard to swallow. I know this was set a couple of years ago, but i know the drills in place we use have been in use since the war itself. To not see them implemented in 'mark of cain' was plain bad research. As for when the rpg exploded, well i nearly fell out of my seat, i know its tv, but for christs sake, their rpg exploded like it was coated in c4!

But the worst bit? Watching British soldiers gear up for an operation behaving like they were gung ho Americans. An insult to every squaddie whos ever set foot in Basra.

Cobblers.
Agreed. A poor film, technically and factually and artistically. Eminently forgettable.

We should take Tony Marchant to task over this, and make him earn his vast fee. A raft of well-informed letters/emails from ARRSErs would keep him busy for a bit.
 

Ferg

Clanker
A docu-drama based on photographs that were subsequently found to be faked. A regiment that's happy as a man from CO down to LCpl and Pte (including the Padre) to condone torture. I watched it very unhappily as this is what a lot of people who have never served will think of us and what we're doing in Iraq. Thanks Channel 4.
 
gado,

It was just one scene of many that provoked a reaction within me, to list them all would have been exhausting!

Perhaps by putting the footnote at the end of credits, explaining that this was a work of fiction, they were attempting to apologise for trying to insult the veiwers inteligence.

Maybe one day tv will take an interest in what the overwhelming majority of soldiers have been doing in Basra since the war started, ended, and the subsequent Telics. I guess doing the job extemely well under constant pressure and in the face of real danger on a daily basis wont make good tv though will it?

Maybe we should speak to the navy....
 
Ferg said:
A docu-drama based on photographs that were subsequently found to be faked. A regiment that's happy as a man from CO down to LCpl and Pte (including the Padre) to condone torture. I watched it very unhappily as this is what a lot of people who have never served will think of us and what we're doing in Iraq. Thanks Channel 4.
Indeed.

Quick question for the reg's out there. I'm in the TA for the time being (off to Regs on completion degree) and have seen a few people from my unit go off to Iraq over the past 3 years. Is the portrayal of how the STAB was treated in mark of cain accurate? or is this another "well researched" *cough* aspect of the programme?!
 

barbarasson

War Hero
[quote="

well there was some mil advice but the producer will have added scenes for drama, pleasing the majority of the civvys watching not just the minority of squaddies shouting at the scream for all the faults... this is how joe public wants to see us.[/quote]

im not sure they do, surely people will see the cardboard cut out charcters.
 
Stand by fellas, what a superb bit of anti Army, anti Brit, anti Forces shite that was, just think the producer off that tripe has the privaligage of free speech because of our forefathers, ourselves and our present brilliant torch bearers have made it possible to be able to make something like that....cnut, I did see his name somewhere I shall find it and post it hear just incase anyone wants to pass on their own critics review.
 
No one likes seeing their drills done badly. I imagine doctors and nurses in the NHS have been pulling their hair out for years about ER, Holby City, and fcuk knows what the Met think about The Bill. Point is, this load of tripe was a formulaic romp through every 'kick the Army' issue the author could think of, from peer pressure through bullying, poor family services, inadequate medical care to kicking the crud out of innocent civilians. You could sit there ticking the bloody list off. There was a bit of 'remember, they're being shot at and face some angry people' to give it all a bit of context. 'Powerful drama' my ARRSE.
 
The response here reminds of me of the response by American troops over the full length TV show "Over There". That steaming pile lasted for a whole season

You guys don't have to stand for this. Squaddies have had video cameras on hand throughout this whole war. I think you guys ought to get to work on a REAL documentary with your photos and video.
 
Well, I'm a member of Joe Public and one with an interest in joining up. I'll say that I no more believe that represented real soldiering than The Bill represents real policing.

I have an open mind. Maybe the Mark of Cain was totally realistic, partially realistic or completely unrealistic. How can I know when I've never been in the army? Which is why I'm here, listening to the opinions of people who have.

One pretty disturbing aspect of it was how badly the two privates got treated. But was it realistic? I care about the detailed opinions of those who've been there and done it a lot more than a fictional film on TV. So at least some of the public are bothered to seek out your side of the story instead of just swallowing what's in the media.
 
Father_Gundulph said:
Ferg said:
A docu-drama based on photographs that were subsequently found to be faked. A regiment that's happy as a man from CO down to LCpl and Pte (including the Padre) to condone torture. I watched it very unhappily as this is what a lot of people who have never served will think of us and what we're doing in Iraq. Thanks Channel 4.
Indeed.

Quick question for the reg's out there. I'm in the TA for the time being (off to Regs on completion degree) and have seen a few people from my unit go off to Iraq over the past 3 years. Is the portrayal of how the STAB was treated in mark of cain accurate? or is this another "well researched" *cough* aspect of the programme?!
I served with a TA soldier in Iraq for 7 months, i can say he was treated like a reg. This was however, because he was a professional in attitude and in the application of his work. He was my top cover partner and i trusted him, and still would, with my life.

Turn up with his attitude and im sure you will hit the ground running.
 

Rockbasha

Swinger
Unmitigated c**p! I've been off this site for a while for various reasons but had to come back on to vent my spleen over this appaling rubbish.

Poorly researched, badly written, technically inaccurate, and most annoyingly - deliberately blurring the line between history, journalism, and drama. The pathetic fine print disclaimer at the end will do nothing to prevent a great many viewers taking this as an accurate portrayal of the British Army and of historical events.

The RPG exploding as if it was half a ton of AMFO was bad enough and that was probably the least naff part. About the most galling was the portrayal of the officers as ineffectual morally vacuaous administrators tacitly autorising war crimes without batting an eyelid. Arrrghh! :x

A good drama should at the very least stimulate some thoughts and questions in the mind of the viewer, but this film did not manage that simple task. Yet another dent in my opinion of Channel 4.
 

earlos

Swinger
I really am disgusted. Talking about tarring a image, All that done is Made the boys who are serving look bad lowering the public views on the Army. Programs should be supportive gaining support from the public not making the British Army Look Bad. Watching it really did ANGER ME!
 
I was so irritated by this programme that I felt compelled to fire a broadside at something. So I joined ARRSE! Never seen such culpable nonsense - but then Channel 4 has something of a history of this (Ships, Submarines, Regiments etc).

With regard to our glorious leaders in their various guises, there is one MP who might blow the collective gasket for all those who feel inappropriately presented by this programme. He was featured in Soldier magazine recently but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention his name. He is Ex-Reg (Ghurka Engineers), TA, done tours (Afghanistan last recess) etc and I know him - he's a good bloke. Perhaps he might make a noise in the right place where mere mortals can't gain access? I hope so. I'm certainly going to write to him - and MP's do listen to this sort of thing. I know, because I worked for one. If enough people put it in writing they'll take notice.

I certainly agree that those who have something to say should say it - but not in the way that was attempted recently. I really do think that the truth about the quality of professionalism out there should be aired - and Iran and Channel 4 seem less than qualified for this noble task. Perhaps we can lean on said MP to put in a relevant question at Prime Minister's Questions next week? Or am I just taking the matter of badly presenting the Armed Forces generally and the Army specifically too far?

Answers on a post card to: Mrs Toni Bliar, Head of Policy Misdirection, 10 Da Nang St, 51st State, Euroland
 

Deckard

Swinger
Again

I was appalled at the portrayal of our fources and of an institution that I, and thousands of others, are proud to be a part of. Even the padre was lacking moral fibre!
 
'Inspired by real events' was it?

What right have the programme makers to transpose these unspecificed 'real events' on to the British forces and then make a heart-string puller of it? Go on, tell me, which 'real events' are those of which you quote?

Or are you too busy spending your slightly-delayed pay cheque in the gastro-pubs of Islington?
 

grey_mafia

Old-Salt
Agamemnon1979 said:
I'm a writer working on a novel in which one of the characters was in Afghanistan for months until the got his foot crushed in a car accident in Spring this year. His actual time there makes up a small part of the action, but if I write it with only what I know about the subject as the basis it'll just sound like a load of cobblers. Anyone think they can help me out with this or point me somewhere useful?
Cheers for reading
Sounds that 'Mark of Cain' nonsense never had the info you are asking for and broadcast 'Cobblers' (as you so rightly put.....) Can't give you any info on Afghan, but if you want the truth about prisoner handling in 2003 give me a PM. But let me say that the programme is a disgrace to the Memory of all the Troops that have died in Iraq since 2003, and CH4 should ask for factual technical advice before they show these programmes.
Many thanks CH4 for putting back the trust of these people by about 4 years, you disgust me, and many more like me... :cry:
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
caubeen said:
Biscuits_AB said:
caubeen said:
Biscuits_AB said:
Just watched the 'dog shooting'.....the real life incident involved SPAMs, not Brits. Seen enough.
"Seen enough" to do what?

Dramas - even this pi55-poor rubbish - have a progressive development and a conclusion. Or have you arrived at yours? It'd be running true to form . . .
I arrived at mine having 'seen enough' and turned over. I'd have been quite happy to continue watching had they stuck with the 'truths' they claimed earlier that their 'drama' had a duty to portray. Cutting and pasting an incident which involved American soldiers from someone else's documentry, didn't do it for me. You have some sort of problem with that? You are obviously still smarting from the last round where I kicked your arrse, don't go for double or quits, all you'll do is turn this thread into another fiasco.

Now grow up, stop stalking me via my posts you sad lonely wierdo. People are allowed to turn over if they don't like watching something on TV.
"Much Ado About Nothing".

"A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing."
Good grief :roll: .

Well, perhaps now you may explain to us why you believed that soldiers could learn lessons from this programme? You backed Purves up by saying that she had a good point, now put your money where your mouth is or shut up. I've only been asking this of you for just over a week and you have continually refused to provide a straight answer. Now that you have seen the programme, please enlighten us as to what you feel that soldiers could learn from it.

I don't think that you can or that you have ever been in a position to do so and that you continually run around the houses in order to hide your embarrassment.

Now, take a deep beath and in your own time....carry on.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Lucky_Jim said:
'Inspired by real events' was it?

What right have the programme makers to transpose these unspecificed 'real events' on to the British forces and then make a heart-string puller of it? Go on, tell me, which 'real events' are those of which you quote?

Or are you too busy spending your slightly-delayed pay cheque in the gastro-pubs of Islington?
Can we have a whipround to produce our own 'docu-drama' á la Michael "I'm a fat lying cnut" Moore ?

The plot would of course be 'inspired by real events' and cover the private lives of a film company making a television movie of, ooooh, what shall we say ?
How about they were making a film on soldiers in Iraq ?

Our drama would reveal that the makeup team put various mind-bending drugs in the slap for the 'thethspianth' who were all coprophiliac kleptos, the directors & producers ran a child-porn ring, and the whole lot of them voted for Bliar.


It would definitely be inspired by real events but there might be some legal problems if we accuse - I mean portray - them as Bliarites.
 

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