The lost 20 years of CIA spies caught in China trap

#1
This is well worth a read. Two incredible brave men who suffered for 20 years in a Chinese jail. Both are still alive and unlike our brave Iranian hostages (thirteen days in the Teheran Hilton) they have never sold their story!

The lost 20 years of CIA spies caught in China trap

Lured by a double agent and jailed secretly, the tale of Jack Downey and Richard Fecteau is one of the most extraordinary in espionage

On a crisp spring morning in 1973 a pale and emaciated man made his way slowly across the Lo Wu bridge from China into Hong Kong. A British soldier at the frontier post saluted him as he approached. This was, the man later reflected, “the first act of dignity shown to him in 20 years”.
His name was Jack Downey. He was a CIA agent, and since 1952 he and a colleague, Richard Fecteau, had languished in a Chinese prison, often in solitary confinement, secret hostages in the Cold War between the US and China.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1685467.ece
 
#2
Balls of steel! Unlike J Taylor of Bristol who make scommenta t the bottom of the page. He is a despicable barsteward.
 
#3
rickshaw-major said:
Balls of steel! Unlike J Taylor of Bristol who make scommenta t the bottom of the page. He is a despicable barsteward.
Totally agree with you RM. Some people are just not from the real world. Comments like his/hers are disgraceful!
 
#4
rickshaw-major said:
Balls of steel! Unlike J Taylor of Bristol who make scommenta t the bottom of the page. He is a despicable barsteward.
I've just read his comment and I can't honestly see what you're objecting to, unless it's that he's using the story of these two brave men to make a point supporting his own political views. His comment seems quite accurate and moderately expressed to me. :scratch:

As he says, what do you expect the Chinese to do with spies captured on their territory? Downey and Fecteau were after all setting out to aid and equip insurgent groups for the purpose of armed opposition to the PRC government - an act of war in fact. Not to detract from the sheer resilience of the two or their remarkable story, but PRC would have been quite within their rights to put the two of them up against a wall, IMHO.
 
#5
Most peoples experiences would pale into insignificance compared to this.
 
#6
smartascarrots said:
rickshaw-major said:
Balls of steel! Unlike J Taylor of Bristol who make scommenta t the bottom of the page. He is a despicable barsteward.
I've just read his comment and I can't honestly see what you're objecting to, unless it's that he's using the story of these two brave men to make a point supporting his own political views. His comment seems quite accurate and moderately expressed to me. :scratch:

As he says, what do you expect the Chinese to do with spies captured on their territory? Downey and Fecteau were after all setting out to aid and equip insurgent groups for the purpose of armed opposition to the PRC government - an act of war in fact. Not to detract from the sheer resilience of the two or their remarkable story, but PRC would have been quite within their rights to put the two of them up against a wall, IMHO.
He says they weren't tortured. Mentally they were;physically -well why don't we just put leg irons on our captives in Iraq :!:

Unfortunately, SAC the Cold War was just that - a war. Thank God we had people like these two guys willing to put everything on the line. Objectivity is a thing only people who live in a democracy can have - and that objectivity was purchased be people like these two.
 
#7
rickshaw-major said:
He says they weren't tortured. Mentally they were;physically -well why don't we just put leg irons on our captives in Iraq :!:

Unfortunately, SAC the Cold War was just that - a war. Thank God we had people like these two guys willing to put everything on the line. Objectivity is a thing only people who live in a democracy can have - and that objectivity was purchased be people like these two.
Granted all of the above. But we were at war with PRC in Korea at the time and they were conducting acts of war against a sovereign state. What did they expect to get, comfy cushions?

The contrast with our side's behaviour in GWOT is still a valid one - we're very quick to seize the moral high ground, but sometimes don't live up to our own standards. We also psychologically torture prisoners and while we don't use leg irons, we do use other similar forms of restraint. Why then should we expect others to live up to the stadards we set? Especially the likes of the Chinese state. I would have expected torture and summary execution from them. Instead they received treatment similar to our "unlawful combatants".

Objectivity can be exercised by anyone with the intelligence to do so, regardless of the system they live under. Francis Bacon didn't have the vote, after all. Having had it purchased at such a cost, we should use it at every opportunity, especially when the stakes are so high. The price of freedon is, after all, eternal vigilence.
 
#8
With impressive understatement, Downey remarked to his partner that they were now in “a hell of a mess”.
Downey laconically observed that the entire experience had been a “crashing bore”. Fecteau joked that his good health was due to having spent “19 years without booze, broads or butts”.

quality quotes!!!!! :D :D :D
 

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