The Legacy of Lawrence of Arabia BBC2

#1
Rory Stewart doing the life and legacy of T E Lawrence and his effect on today after over 80 years, look interesting
 
#2
I watched some of it and it was quite interesting.

However, I laughed like a drain when the presenter suggested that "Lawrence opted for camels..." when looking for transport. As if there was anything else that was capable of surviving in the desert at the time...

Litotes
 
#3
Even Mrs Foggy remarked that it was interesting (after lying on the couch and snoring through half of it mind you). The next part should be well worth a watch also. Curious to see how many paralells he manages to draw from the influence Lawrence may have had in the formation of modern Saudi to the current state of play in the middle east.
 
#4
Litotes said:
I watched some of it and it was quite interesting.

However, I laughed like a drain when the presenter suggested that "Lawrence opted for camels..." when looking for transport. As if there was anything else that was capable of surviving in the desert at the time...

Litotes
Really? Then I wonder how the Arabian horse got its name and earned its reputation?

http://www.arabianhorses.org/education/education_history_intro.asp

I think you'll find that El Awrence was commenting on their ability as beasts of burden...............that and using them to ride down to the nearest Turkish Army post for some man-love.
 
#6
Baseplate said:
Litotes said:
I watched some of it and it was quite interesting.

However, I laughed like a drain when the presenter suggested that "Lawrence opted for camels..." when looking for transport. As if there was anything else that was capable of surviving in the desert at the time...

Litotes
Really? Then I wonder how the Arabian horse got its name and earned its reputation?

http://www.arabianhorses.org/education/education_history_intro.asp

I think you'll find that El Awrence was commenting on their ability as beasts of burden...............that and using them to ride down to the nearest Turkish Army post for some man-love.
Horses are fine and dandy but need water more often than the camel. And the camel has wide feet which are much better when walking on soft sand.

Litotes
 
#7
Litotes said:
Baseplate said:
Litotes said:
I watched some of it and it was quite interesting.

However, I laughed like a drain when the presenter suggested that "Lawrence opted for camels..." when looking for transport. As if there was anything else that was capable of surviving in the desert at the time...

Litotes
Really? Then I wonder how the Arabian horse got its name and earned its reputation?

http://www.arabianhorses.org/education/education_history_intro.asp

I think you'll find that El Awrence was commenting on their ability as beasts of burden...............that and using them to ride down to the nearest Turkish Army post for some man-love.
Horses are fine and dandy but need water more often than the camel. And the camel has wide feet which are much better when walking on soft sand.

Litotes
Not disputing any of that, but the Arabian horse was (and remains) a potent status symbol, certainly amongst the Bedou and was the preferred method of going to war.
 
#8
He's mdone a lot for his relative youth. I arrived at BP just after he left. He left a few copies of Prince of the marshes around.

He couldn't be any worse than his replacements
 
#9
Is the prog on line somewhere?

Would be good to have a look and see the presenters take on things. I can't get bbc 2 since being transported to the colonies, so if a link is available it would be much apreciated :D
 
#10
I tuned in, but quickly became bored of him talking about himself. That said, he's obviously a capable guy with plenty of ambition. I'd vote for him over anyone presently in Government.
 
#11
I thought it was quite good, the thought that Arabs think of Lawrence and Bin-Laden as doing the same thing, getting rid of occupying forces, be they Turkish,Russian,or US/British was a bit of history once again repeating itself. Both Stewart and Pete Ashner most certainly know the Arab world and mentality, and should be listened too, as they seem a hell of a lot more clued up than the F****** idiots that are now Bull shiteing there way out of trouble at the Iraq inquiry.
 
#12
zazabell_012 said:
Is the prog on line somewhere?

Would be good to have a look and see the presenters take on things. I can't get bbc 2 since being transported to the colonies, so if a link is available it would be much apreciated :D
There ya go:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pyrw1/The_Legacy_of_Lawrence_of_Arabia_Episode_1/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qgvkd

In the First World War, T.E Lawrence helped to unite feuding Arab tribes into a formidable guerrilla army which helped to topple the Ottoman Empire. But today Lawrence has an extraordinary new relevance. His experiences of defeating a foreign military occupation, and of leading an insurgency, have led to him being held up as the man who cracked fighting in the Middle East.

Harvard Professor Rory Stewart is a former soldier, diplomat and governor of two Iraqi provinces. Rory has spent many years living and working in Iraq and Afghanistan, and has been fascinated with Lawrence since his childhood. In these two films, he examines the legacy of Britain's First World War campaign in the Middle East, and draws parallels with British and American interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan today.

But for Rory, Lawrence's story has a much darker message than is normally portrayed - Lawrence might have won his war in the desert and been hailed a warrior hero, but the politics that followed fatally undermined his success.

Lawrence had aimed, he said, 'to write his will across the skies' and build a new independent Arab nation, but in these two films Rory Stewart shows how Lawrence felt his dream ended in catastrophe and shame.

Drawing a comparison between Lawrence's experience and today, Rory explains how Lawrence came to the conclusion that foreign military interventions in the Middle East are fundamentally unworkable. He concludes, 'Looking at Iraq and Afghanistan today, I believe very strongly that Lawrence's message would not have been do it better, do it more sensitively, but don't do it at all.'.
I watched it, seeing as he lived, died and is buried here, and found it interesting.
 
#13
bovvy said:
zazabell_012 said:
Is the prog on line somewhere?

Would be good to have a look and see the presenters take on things. I can't get bbc 2 since being transported to the colonies, so if a link is available it would be much apreciated :D
There ya go:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pyrw1/The_Legacy_of_Lawrence_of_Arabia_Episode_1/

I watched it, seeing as he lived, died and is buried here, and found it interesting.
Won't work in the colonies. Its part of the punishment.
 
#14
[quote="Baseplate]... using them to ride down to the nearest Turkish Army post for some man-love.[/quote]

I don't think it was ever proved one way or the other, was it? Remarkable man, though. I can't comment on any Middle East legacy he may have left, but I have a copy of his translation of The Odyssey which is a work of art in itself. Pity about that motorbike accident.
 
#15
Democritus said:
Pity about that motorbike accident.
Serves him right for joining the Crabs.......Ouch.

I was looking forward to the programme - but found it a bit longwinded and thought the presenter (Stephen Gately's long lost twin?) was overly self-obsessed. Some fantastic location shots, some good insights into 'Arab' culture and perspective and interesting parallels between then and now but on occasions I felt he was rather stretching the point.

The American military's fascination with Lawrence was an interesting discovery.

I have a copy of Seven Pillars of Wisdom but have never managed to finish it.

Lawrence of Arabia is still one of the best films ever made!
 
#16
#17
There was an amusing comment from a US Army Officer, holding up a copy of their manual of counter-insurgency, and announcing that they had found copies in Taliban training camps so "they're reading it, now all we have to do is get our people to read it".
 
#18
Queensman said:
I have a copy of Seven Pillars of Wisdom but have never managed to finish it.

Lawrence of Arabia is still one of the best films ever made!
Check to both. Some of his phrases do linger in the memory, though: "showy-vicious Levantine officers", IIRC, and another one which reminds me of a former CO's ill-concealed opinion of yours truly: "He thought me both militarily incompetent and politically absurd". No comment! :D
 
#19
Read the book “ Seven Pillars of Wisdom “ many years ago . The film based on the book is a classic with unforgettable camera techniques and scenes .A very enigmatic and charismatic man but in the bigger picture no match to senior officers and politicians … in some ways he was an idealist and romantic . In the 1960’s I am sure I went to a house , near RAC Bovington , where he lived after the 1st World War . Thought at the time that the aged housekeeper could well have been looking after the place when he lived there .
Pleased that “ Bovvy “ has indicated that in fact Lawrence did live near to Bovington … my memory has not yet gone
 
#20

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