The Land Joint Fires Staff Officers Course

Discussion in 'Gunners' started by FrogPrince, May 21, 2008.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. "The Land Joint Fires Staff Officers Course (JFSOC) is run by the Royal School of Artillery (on behalf of the Land Warfare School) at the Artillery Centre at Larkhill, Wiltshire. The course is five days in length."

    http://www.army.mod.uk/royalartillery/units/royal_school_of_artillery/courses/jfires_course.htm

    "The LJFSOC addresses the joint fires training shortfall for Staff Officers by delivering all the Joint Fires systems and methodology in one package to a varied audience. It is valuable pre-employment training for mortar officers, recce regiment squadron operations officers, battlegroup staff and those SO2s and SO3s involved in Joint Fires at the Bde level. There is also relevance for Air and Naval Staffs working in headquarters of other components or elsewhere in the joint arena. The course’s remit is to instruct on Joint Fires at the Brigade and Battle Group levels across the spectrum of operations; but will concentrate on high intensity warfighting at the BG level."

    This course appears to be strictly rank-ranged. Before I pick up the phone to the RSA and make a fool of myself, have any YO's / SNCO's ever attended ?
     
  2. yes they have
     
  3. Many thanks.

    The intent is for 6 Regt AAC (V) to develop an Avn Ops Support function over and above our expertise in FARP'ing AH etc.

    I've been trawling the DIN's for courses, exercises etc. that would support some of the training objectives.

    Sounds an extremely interesting course.
     
  4. I did the cse back in Mar/Apr and can highly recommend it. A good spread of capbadges and reps from the other two services. It is good to see that we have at last started to break down the barriers that once existed between FOOing, FACing, mortars etc.

    I never thought that I would say this but, well done the RSA.

    C_T
     
  5. It's a good - but basic - introduction.
     
  6. I think for the ''walls'' to come down further the RA need to accept the idea that they dont own the FAC world .How about a rep from JFACTSU at the RSA?.The way it looks to me is that there is a massive loss of comms between the RA joint fires types and the rest of the non-RA FAC's. The term ''Empire building'' is often heard on the wet and windy Op's of Otterburn,Loch ewe and Spadeadam.
     
  7. so what FAC training is actually done at the RSA??
     
  8. Sounds good. Lets get a JFACTSU rep down there. There is also some discussion about relocating elements of the LWS Support Weapons School there.

    Stuff empire building lets just get this crucial activity right. I am quite happy if T-T wants to rename the RSA; no skin off my nose if he calls it T-T's RAF School of Best Practice for Joint Fires...

    C_T
     
  9.  
  10. ''happy friendlies 2 ks NE''

    Am am well aware that no FAC training is conducted at Larkhill. I just think as do many of my FAC chums,that there should be some FAC interest at RSA. Joint fires is here to stay and if the RA want to embrace that then brilliant.Its the other corps that have been caught napping.It is a fact that Fast air is a massive player within Joint fires yet the FST commanders coming off the course seem a little naive to CAS .Maybe you gunners should check fire once in a while to let us do our jobs.We know our jobs just let us get on with it.''Too many cooks'' and all that.

    Having said all of that ,I have been plesantly surprised to find the training at RAF Waddington fantastic and many of the old school BC types are either moving on or coming round a little.If the RA had a dedicated trade as an FAC then I am sure it would get many transfer requests.Just dont make us wear those silly white tw@t hats.I for one see the massive potential that the FST concept can bring.However there seems a while to go yet.



    sense of humour please guys.
     
  11.  
  12. Captain_Crusty

    Captain_Crusty War Hero Reviewer Book Reviewer

    [quote="johnnypaveway]

    I am inclined to agree with TT regards the RA expansionist mentality, Why are FSTs commanded by a FOO? Arguably a FAC enables the most versatile kinetic platform and is equally versed in BM (there are other cse out there that specifically deal with BM), has the rank, SA and comms. [/quote]

    An immediate problem with FACs being FST Comds is that you would need 2 FACs (1 to FST Comd and 1 to FAC) in every FST. We struggle as it is to provide the necessary number of FACs across the purple community so suggesting we should have twice as many is unlikely to hold much water.
     
  13. [
    CS, my bold, I think you do FACs a dis-service, somehow I missed the deckchair issue in HERRICK/TELIC. As for working for myself? My overriding mission is to support the Grnd Cdr's SOM.

    quote]

    deckchair - messing around

    I do believe that anyone can be an FST commander if they have an understanding of all aspects of joint fires, for an FAC who is not RA cap badge and does not understand gunnery, this would be difficult, FACs are doing a fantastic job both in Afghan and Iraq and they must be left to carry out their job without worrying what the guns, mortars, AH are doing, that is the FST commanders responsibility to co-ordinate and de-conflict.
    Not sure what they teach at RSA on the FST/FOO cse so will not comment on their lack of understanding of Air when they finish, maybe someone who as just completed the cse can comment

    PS the training at RAF Waddington is of excellent value for both Joint fires Cell/FPC and FST and is a step in the right direction, I believe this is run by Gunners from RSA
     
  14. An immediate problem with FACs being FST Comds is that you would need 2 FACs (1 to FST Comd and 1 to FAC) in every FST. We struggle as it is to provide the necessary number of FACs across the purple community so suggesting we should have twice as many is unlikely to hold much water.[/quote]

    CC, being pragmatic, I agree with you entirely, as quite rightly you point out that we are undermanned for current competent CR FACs. That said


    CS from your post:
    I do believe that anyone can be an FST commander if they have an understanding of all aspects of joint fires, for an FAC who is not RA cap badge and does not understand gunnery, this would be difficult, FACs are doing a fantastic job both in Afghan and Iraq and they must be left to carry out their job without worrying what the guns, mortars, AH are doing, that is the FST commanders responsibility to co-ordinate and de-conflict.
    Not sure what they teach at RSA on the FST/FOO cse so will not comment on their lack of understanding of Air when they finish, maybe someone who as just completed the cse can comment

    My bold, the FST Cdr does not have to be a Gunnery SME, as long as the FST contains someone who is, he can get on with the job of running the team. The role of the FST Cdr is to integrate effects and translate grd cdrs SOM into supporting effects.

    My second bold, every time a tgt is prosecuted by Air, the FAC is worrying about Guns/Mortars/AH/TLAM/TUAV/SUAV/GMLRS from yourselves and then all the other air users because he is paid to understand the joint environment. FAC'ing is not just about the terminal control. My key point is that just because someone is not RA/RHA capbadge, pse do not expect them to be ignorant of RA fires and integration. As a consequence I still maintain that a FAC can cmd an FST..............pity we don't have enough :roll:
     
  15. Whoa there mate. If there is a/c in the air on task it is the FAC's responsibility to de-conflict it with the other things travelling through the air. AH mortars or arty. One of the things you don't wanna here as an FAC is "I never thought it would make that big an explosion" As a Mortar round knocks the jet out of the sky. The FAC is controlling the air and deconflicts be that by time, height or latterally.