The lack of French involvement in Iraq or Afganistan

#1
oh where oh where are are our illustrious European Partners oh yes that's right content to snipe at us from afar no forthcoming french reinforements only bleating that they are not getting their fair share of the rebuilding contracts
 
#2
You do know the French have been involved in Afghanistan and have taken KIA ?

Has UK PLC had it's 'fair share' of rebuilding contracts in Iraq or Afghanistan?
 
#6
isongard said:
oh where oh where are are our illustrious European Partners oh yes that's right content to snipe at us from afar no forthcoming french reinforements only bleating that they are not getting their fair share of the rebuilding contracts
Now why should "our illustrious European Partners" want to join an illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq and failing occupation that they were opposed to from day one? Just because Tony Blair was foolish enough to follow the Bush regime, why should they?

During the initial operation in Afghanistan "our illustrious European Partners" pulled their weight, and continue to do so in the mission that they signed up to. Why would they want to pursue our policy of mission creep simply because we have got ourselves into a pickle and got bogged down?
 
#8
Fuc*in frenchmen, while our boys are out fighting the taliban and the insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan, as usual, the french watch from afar, taking the absolute minimum of causalties and taking as many contracts as they can get their hands on.....

Just Like World War 2 {save the free french and the resistance}, {and 1 for that}, they watch as everyone else fights the battles for them, then swarm in when the moneys involved, no wonder no-one has respect for todays french forces.

they can go fu*k. :thumbdown:
 
#9
If the French had got themselves into some self-inflicted mess in some far-off hell hole, and then asked us to bail them out, I'm sure you'd be the first to tell them to go fcuk themselves. Why should they do any different? Why should they ride to Bush and Blair's rescue to bail them out of their own foreign policy fcuk-ups?

Iraq and Afghanistan is a cluster **** because of Bush/Blair, not because of French refusal. The "boys down south" are struggling because Brown/Blair haven't equipped, manned and financed HM Armed Forces properly.
 
#10


Looks French to me.

Incidently, Rafale has just completed its first operational missions.
 

Auld-Yin

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#11
stvwardy said:
Just Like World War 2 {save the free french and the resistance}, {and 1 for that}, they watch as everyone else fights the battles for them, then swarm in when the moneys involved, no wonder no-one has respect for todays french forces.

they can go fu*k. :thumbdown:
stvwardy - I think that many people have great respect for the very professional French armed forces. What probably prompts your comments regarding the French armed forces, is that people don't have respect for their political masters who have demonstrated a lack of backbone but excellent business sense.
 
#12
on its way to helmland is it why must the bush/blair agrgument always be trotted out if france was happy to come in at the start and then help train why not prove the critics wrong and reiforce the brits canadians in the south werer the casulty rate is far higher and clearly not as safe as the north
 
#13
I've worked with the French operationally.

A few peculiar ones but overall they're pretty decent guys to work with when they don't throw temper tantrums.

I still prefer working with the Dutch of all nationalities though (shhh, don't tell Cloggie, he'll only get a high opinion of himself!).
 
#14
perhaps your right Auld-Yin howver the problem with the french is that they seem to have no backbone {the politicians at least} in doing something for the greater good of the world....

However the french army, also has a lot to answer for, due to its actions in time of war, such as the Mutiny during World War 1,leaving Britain and America to fight the whole of the western front.

The ability of its commanders during World War 2 to just give up {excepting the Brave men and women who volunteered for the free french and resistance} and accept defeat.

*mutiny in world war 1
*Vichy france's collobaration with Nazi germany during World War 2.
*and its seeming logerheads with the American Government {whatever administration}.

and removal of its forces from NATO control, the only member to do so.

the French politicians have no backbone, except for defeatism, while yes its decision to send troops into the middle eastern problem areas is commendable, deliberately sending its troops to some of the safest areas is a kick in the face to other forces, and the Soldiers of the nations who are risking their lives daily, trying to bring peace to iraq and afghanistan.....

please forgive any typing errors im quite tired....

:thumright:
 
#15
isongard,

The first Hellfire missile fired in anger by a British AH was to destroy a French vehicle disabled by Taliban fire in Helmand. There were several French KIA in the preceding contact with the Taliban.

I take it you weren't there last year along with the large contingent from Elmpt on a ramp ceremony for these fallen French SF soldiers in Kandahar. A moving ceremony, with a couple of coffins taken onto the back of the waiting plane at dawn by the soldiers' comrades, some of whom were still wearing the first field dressings from wounds they received in the incident.

Please get your facts right about nations who are on our side and losing young men just like us before posting any more ignorant comments.
 
#16
stvwardy said:
<snip>

However the french army, also has a lot to answer for, due to its actions in time of war, such as the Mutiny during World War 1,leaving Britain and America to fight the whole of the western front. <snip>
OT - With respect, that's not actually true. Yes, the French Army mutinied in 1917 (largely because Nivelle, who was half-English was a complete numpty), but by 1918, you'll find that they were rather heavily engaged again, to put it mildly. The Americans, whatever Professor John Mosier would like us to believe, didn't play anywhere near as big a part on the western front in 1918 as the French.
 
#17
From the permanent representative of France to the North Atlantic Council website :
- FRANCE IN AFGHANISTAN

1. France has not turned a blind eye to calls for help in Afghanistan

Since 2002, French forces have been involved in Afghanistan, mainly in Kabul and in the regions of Kandahar (July 2003 to mid-2006) and Jalalabad (2006) where the special forces have been deployed.

More than 2,000 French troops participate in the fight against terrorism and the stabilization of Afghanistan with ground, naval, and air support through UN resolutions and other international agreements. This participation includes :

- 1,100 troops in the RCC of Kabul under French command until April 2007 ; the participation of each country in ISAF was negotiated within the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and today, all of them are working together in accordance with the terms of the missions entrusted to them by the Alliance ;

- France also plays an active role in training the Afghan Army. This mission is essential to the long-term stabilization of the country : more than 3,800 officers have been trained by French instructors. Our effort has been stepped up following the decisions President Chirac announced at the Riga NATO summit, with :
- the preservation of our air capacities in Tajikistan and the participation of our aircraft carrier task group as of mid-March in missions to assist ISAF and Operation Enduring Freedom ground forces ;
- the supply of certain critical capabilities (particularly the dispatch of two EC 725 Caracal transport helicopters) ;
- the training of Afghani special forces as of April 2007 ;
- the strengthening of our participation in the formation of the Afghan army as of the end of April 2007. 51 instructors will join the Afghan staff (corps and brigade levels) and a battalion, including operations outside Kabul (South and East in specific).

2. Reasons for the French mission in Kabul

- The situation in Kabul remains fragile : During the last months, the Taliban has tried to infiltrate the capital city in order to undertake terrorist actions. Three years ago, there were no suicide attacks in Kabul : it is the case nowadays.

- You can’t reasonably expect to secure the country if you do not secure its centre of decision : this is the task which has been assigned to the French forces, a choice which is supported by the Afghan government itself.

- However, a new deployment of our troops outside Kabul can be envisaged, depending on whether the security in the capital area permits it. According to this principle, a small unit has been sent to the South of Afghanistan to assist the Canadian PRT in Kandahar.

- Having said that, our medium-term objective is to transfer the entire responsibility of their own security to the Afghan authorities.

3. France’s participation in the reconstruction effort

France participates in the international effort of reconstruction in a bilateral manner, but more significantly, within UN agencies and the European Union. France is financing approximately 16% of the EU contributions (1.5 billion Canadian dollars earmarked for 2002-2006). The eradication of poppy remains the most serious challenge for the country. In the framework of the fight against heroin trafficking, Paris organized and hosted, in 2003, an international conference on the drug routes within Afghanistan. The Ministers Council convened on February 12th to confirm their long term commitment to the EU, and to decide on dispatching a mission in Afghanistan that will enable a support system for the police and will contribute to the reinforcement of state law.

4. France has strong commitment in UN and NATO operations elsewhere Altogether, France has 35,000 troops overseas. Among them, 16,000 from all branches and services are deployed in operations. France is the second-biggest contributor after the United States in crisis management missions and the third-biggest contributor in NATO :
- France sent troops to Lebanon in less than 72 hours. There are now 1,650 troops on the ground ;
- The presence of France in Cote d’Ivoire (3,700) is the cornerstone of the UN mission and contributes to the stability of West Africa ;
- Similarly, in Chad (1,100), French troops are a major factor in the stability of a very versatile region and contribute, to a certain extent, to prevent the spread of the Darfur crisis.
- Another significant presence is in the Balkans : about 2,200 troops in Kosovo and 400 in Bosnia.

French military have been involved in most of these places for decades and have paid a heavy sacrifice : 100 French soldiers lost their lives in the Balkans, more than 100 died in Lebanon (58 of them in Beirut on 23 October 1983), and dozens in Africa. In Afghanistan, 10 soldiers died and 109 have been injured./.
 
#18
stvwardy said:
However the french army, also has a lot to answer for, due to its actions in time of war, such as the Mutiny during World War 1,leaving Britain and America to fight the whole of the western front.
This might be the reason they mutinied:

France
Total mobilised: 8,410,000
Killed: 1,357,800
Wounded: 4,266,000
Missing/POW: 537,000
Total casualties: 6,160,800
Casualties as % of mobilised: 76.3

British Empire
Total mobilised: 8,904,467
Killed: 908,371
Wounded: 2,090,212
Missing/POW: 191,652
Total casualties: 3,190,235
Casualties as % of mobilised: 35.8

Over three quarters of the French Army became casualties during the first world war, compared to just over a third of British and Empire forces. I think it's hardly surprising they mutinied.
 
#19
Damn! I've just defended the the French. I must have another drink.
 
#20
Why would anyone want to get involved in Iraq?

Show me one, and I will show you an idiot.
 

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