The Indians HATE Their New Russian-Made Stealth Fighter

#1
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/d89b9ce721de

Russia’s new T-50 stealth fighter is fast, maneuverable, heavily-armed and hard to detect on radar. In theory.

But according to Indian air force officials, in practice the Sukhoi-made stealth jet is also too expensive, poorly engineered and powered by old and unreliable engines.

The Indians’ complaints illustrate the yawning gulf between stealth warplane design and the actual production of radar-evading jets. In other words, it’s one thing to sketch an advanced warplane on paper. It’s quite another to build one and get it to work.

All new aerospace development is difficult and many planes get poor reviews early in testing. But the gripes coming out of New Delhi are particularly worrisome for the Russians.

Sukhoi is working on two variants of the T-50—one for Russian use and another for the Indians. The Indian air force has ambitions to purchase 144 of the stealth jets, and the money from this sale underpins the entire T-50 development effort. New Delhi is also kicking in $6 billion for design work.

Without the Indians’ cash, there wouldn’t be a T-50. And Russia would have basically no hope of acquiring a stealth jet to counter the Americans’ F-22s and F-35s and Chinese J-20s and J-31s.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
with the animosity between india and china though they can only really go to russia.
 
#3
Let me tell you about the yank "Stealth" bomber... It was /is not very stealth. I lost count of the times I issued voice reports of contact position and the yanks (Redcrown) tried to deny a valid contact.
967 picked them up all the time. Stealth my arse!! I found a method of radar-swicthing 996 also that helped track the buggers. Wont explain anymore on here though..
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
watched an interesting doco on the soviet mathematician who came up with the formulas used by lockheed etc... the russians let him go to the US without realising his value or that his book from the 60s was cult reading in those circles.

[video=youtube;lq-xlLcL_1k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq-xlLcL_1k[/video]
 
#5
The story itself says that they've only made 5 hand built prototypes, and the engines currently being used are temporary until the proper engines are ready. What is more, the Indians are supposed to be supplying their own avionics which they are developing themselves, so they can't really blame that on the Russians either. The plane has a long way to go yet before it will be ready for production and service.

The following is probably the relevant bit:

All the same, Business Standard speculates that the Indian complaints could be somewhat politically motivated, as New Delhi is also planning to buy 126 new Rafale fighters from France for an eye-watering total price of $18 billion. Scrapping the T-50 could help India pay for the French jets.
The Indians are running into financial problems in their attempts to keep up with the Chinese, who have an economy several times their size. From what I've seen in the news, India is going to have to cut back on their spending ambitions (and not just for the military). The Indians will probably have to give up something, and a plane still under development is easier to scrap than a plane that they can buy off the shelf from the French.

The French were recently offering Canada access to a lot of the core technology in the Rafale to try to make a sale, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Indians were being offered the same.

Now that the Indians have had a good inside look at what 'stealth' can actually do for them (as opposed to what the sales brochures say), they may decide that it's not by itself all it's cracked up to be. A plane like the Rafale with French avionics may be better than a '5th generation' plane with Indian avionics.
 
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#6
terminal - are you familiar with the stated capabilities and actual capabilities of 996 in various modes?
 

mercurydancer

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/d89b9ce721de

Russia’s new T-50 stealth fighter is fast, maneuverable, heavily-armed and hard to detect on radar. In theory.

But according to Indian air force officials, in practice the Sukhoi-made stealth jet is also too expensive, poorly engineered and powered by old and unreliable engines.

The Indians’ complaints illustrate the yawning gulf between stealth warplane design and the actual production of radar-evading jets. In other words, it’s one thing to sketch an advanced warplane on paper. It’s quite another to build one and get it to work.

All new aerospace development is difficult and many planes get poor reviews early in testing. But the gripes coming out of New Delhi are particularly worrisome for the Russians.

Sukhoi is working on two variants of the T-50—one for Russian use and another for the Indians. The Indian air force has ambitions to purchase 144 of the stealth jets, and the money from this sale underpins the entire T-50 development effort. New Delhi is also kicking in $6 billion for design work.

Without the Indians’ cash, there wouldn’t be a T-50. And Russia would have basically no hope of acquiring a stealth jet to counter the Americans’ F-22s and F-35s and Chinese J-20s and J-31s.
Do you really think that the Russians would sell state of the art stuff? They never do. They sell the second generation equipment which is good enough for export.

Oh, and my regards to RayC
 
#9
Stealth is a myth.

Sent from my Q8H using ARRSE mobile app
 
#12
The Indians do have good form, though, for license building Russian platforms with Indian enhancements - see here SU-30I, for example - thus rather neatly upgrading the monkey version to one better than the original home version.
 

mercurydancer

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
#14
Let me tell you about the yank "Stealth" bomber... It was /is not very stealth. I lost count of the times I issued voice reports of contact position and the yanks (Redcrown) tried to deny a valid contact.
967 picked them up all the time. Stealth my arse!! I found a method of radar-swicthing 996 also that helped track the buggers. Wont explain anymore on here though..
Mate, I really think you should contact Site Admin about the security of your details on here. If I were you, I'd also be careful of any new aquaintances or accidental/coincidental occurrences in your life, or lives of those around you, in the near future. That odd wiring guy round the accommodation? Plain coloured/utilities vans in the street? Yep, you're being "watched". Although "watched" is an understatement.
 
#15
"It's got the radar signature of a bird - but a bird doing several hundred mph"
 
#16
Supermatelot

are you talking 117's or B2?

with peacetime reflectors on, or under wartime/operational conditions (to everyone else who may not know, stealth aircraft carry radar reflectors when needed so they SHOW UP on radar to avoid collisions).

what distances are you talking, as stealth isn't designed to hide an aircraft totally, but merely give it more time until it is detected. Contacts pretty far out are not unknown, but then a couple of other things come into play such as active jamming from other platforms and the rather rapid ability of HARM missiles that may be coming your way if you keep looking.

I kind of think stealth (in its modern incarnation, and not the older 117 style) is a bit like HAHO parachuting, and you only get away with it if there are enough other things going on to keep a defender busy.
 

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