Thanks for that - all points considered, I'll leave it be thenI'm personally not in favour of locking threads once a milestone has been reached. Whilst the present and the future is probably the best way to move forward, the past cannot be ignored - there are many lines of argument on the 'endgame' thread that have direct relevance to what is happening now and what will happen in the future.
Notwithstanding that, the title of this thread is apposite for Brexit at the moment.
I agree. One of the Remainers’ key accusations was that Brexiteers were small-minded xenophobes. Let’s not prove that right.While the EU itself is corrupt, it would be foolish to wish harm on European Countries that are/could be allies in trade, security and defence.
i would love it if boris offered the commonwealth countries a free trade deal,they have proved to be our friends in the past.
I agree with you, but I fear a return to integrity and and trust will not be do easy - eroded by politicians and others that chose expediency over doing the right thing, decision makers avoiding checks and balances, and social media switch hunts. Add to that misinformation by certain regimes and useful idiots...Well you say that.. but my view is that it is this issue that is at the core of many of our current problems, and that re-establishing some of our previous levels of integrity and trust is the way to get us out of our current difficulties!
My comments regarding the manipulation of power by the bureaucracy via Europe came about because of a statement by a German politician responding to some of our complains about the EC. His response to our claims that the EC is "not democratic" was that this was not true because " these regulations come from the member countries.. the relevant department in the UK makes a request to their equivalent department in the EU who considers it and incorporates the request in an EU directive if it is acceptable! therefore the EU does not generate regulations, they all come from the member countries, and UK has sponsored many of the regulations... how can this not be democratic?"
The fact that the requirement for a regulation has come directly from the UK civil service to the EU commission without going through any UK Parliament or democratic process and the first UK Parliament or Public hear about it is when it is embodied in a draft EU directive illustrates nicely the different weltanshaung between UK and Continental perspectives! You need to remember that the civil service in both France and Germany work on significantly different principles to ours as a result of history and culture. The stereotypical view of Germany is that they follow regulations assiduously and that the French generally ignore them...!
The UK system used to work on a system of mutual trust and cooperation, in that there was a general belief that you should behave reasonably honestly and that provided intentions were honourable and common sense was applied, the benefit of doubt was generally given. Authority and responsibility was also devolved to a very much lower level than is currently the case and individuals were trusted to behave sensibly. For many years this was condemned by the purists as "Muddling Through" however it did seem to work, was flexible and efficient and tended to limit the effects of a bad decision! The force of law was more focused on "bad character" rather than technical acts of criminality, and the judgement of the legal system was more sensitive to the behaviour of the individual regarding trustworthiness. A similar set of circumstances can be seen to have occurred in our political systems..
IMHO what has happened is that by mixing European and UK systems of law, democratic and societal process we have ended up with a mess. There is also the effect of US influences on our legal and political systems from shows from "Perry Como" to "The West Wing" introducing concepts that are wholly alien to UK democracy..
The problem with our current pseudo techno-legal system is that it simply does not work! Everything from the CAP to Grenfell and the NHS is an expensive cluster! Nobody trusts anyone to do anything with the result that we are now wading under a blanket of restrictive regulations which cost a fortune and achieve nothing more that interfering with legitimate activity whilst being roundly ignored by those who are doing us harm....!
Trust is the key! Trust enables folk to cooperate efficiently, react quickly and live fulfilled and happy lives! We all know this! Trust however is valuable, needs to be won with effort and be easily lost with drastic consequences. Is it any surprise that the first act of any dictator is to attack and break down any systems of societal trust? Trust used to be UK's major asset.. "My word is my bond" is the most flexible and efficient way to do business!
...where did it all go?
That's not cast in stone until Brexit is fully implemented at the end of the transition stage. We'll see what the future holds.Sorry to disappoint you but come December there is a border in the Irish Sea and earliest NI can leave is 2026
that’s what Boris agreed with the EU
Let's see if I've got this right.. your an inventor, aeronautical engineer, nuclear physicist, astronaut, staffer in the Pentagon, submariner, naval weapons operator/fleet admiral, fighter pilot, political commentator and now you can predict the future...seats in Dial Eirrean
No. No reason to change the best flag in the world: in the unlikely event that a majority of Scots are stupid enough to choose to rely on EU handouts instead of Westminster ones, we can keep the nod to them as sign of friendship and to acknowledge our shared history. Or to mark our appreciation of wedges of blue cheese.If wee Jimmy Krankie wants to keep within the EU do we remove the Saltire from the Union Flag.
Er, except that Poland is in the EU and therefore not allowed to strike its own trade deals...I’d prefer a free trade deal and preferential residency status to Poland as a first innings.
They earned the right, they stood with us in WWII
it would 110% totality piss off the EU.
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