The hidden, ongoing and escalating war.

I believe you'll find that it's the Septics who're doing all the threatening with nuclear weapons, as well as with conventional means. And now Trump has withdrawn from the INF with the immortal words: "We're richer than any other country in the world, we'll build it up until they (Russia and China) come to their senses".
The Russians have been denying 9M729 for five years and now says it isn't in the range category
I think you'd be very hard put to find one single example in the last ten years of either Russia or China openly threatening war. What you appear to misconstrue as "war talk" on their part is their simply responding to the constant threats of war from the Septics. What both countries have made very clear is that they're far more interested in trade deals than war. And just because both of them have effectively thwarted the Septic plans for a US world economy, they're portrayed as war-mongers.
Peace loving bloke old Vlad:
Putin warns the West with nuclear weapon showcase - Reuters TV
Same with Medvedev;
Russia tells Washington curbs on its banks would be act of economic war | Reuters
“I can say one thing: If some ban on banks’ operations or on their use of one or another currency follows, it would be possible to clearly call it a declaration of economic war.”

“And it would be necessary, it would be needed to react to this war economically, politically, or, if needed, by other means. And our American friends need to understand this.”
Especially to former states of the USSR who have the audacity to look elsewhere;
Russian PM warns NATO admission of Georgia could trigger 'terrible conflict' | Reuters
“This (Georgia’s entry to NATO) could provoke a terrible conflict. I don’t understand what they are doing this for,” Medvedev told Russia’s Kommersant newspaper in an interview.
The Septics are even pressuring Germany and the EU to give up on the European/Russian northern gas pipeline. But what business is it of theirs? The fact is that they want to sell their own gas to the EU, even though Europe doesn't have the facilities to process it at the moment. The Septics also want to sell their fracked oil, but the European plants aren't built to process such light oil, so the Septics want more plants built. How stupid is that?

MsG
The best idea, if you're going to rely on carbon fuels, is to get a source unlikely to be turned off on a whim, or even a pretext such as happened with Ukraine.
 
Chinese hackers recently breached a US Navy contractor working for the Naval Undersea Warfare Center, and apparently stole 614 GB of data about submarine and undersea weapons technology. China has also targeted US satellite, telecoms and geospatial imaging firms.

CEO of the threat tracking firm Binary Defense Systems, D Kennedy who formerly worked at the NSA and the USMC signal intelligence unit has stated that China has now focussed on military trade secrets, military preparedness, military readiness, satellite communications and the US’s ability to keep a cyber or military edge.

Other researchers have found evidence ofChinese intrusions US geospatial imagery company, and at least two private satellite companies including one from the US, and a US defense contractor. The breaches were deliberate and targeted, and in the case of the satellite firms the hackers moved through to reach the control systems of actual orbiting satellites, where they could have impacted a satellite's trajectory or disrupted data flow.
Chinese hackers reportedly stole data related to secret projects from a US Navy contractor
U.S. warns of new hacking spree from group linked to China | Reuters

Meanwhile the Russian GRU have been accused of operating without regard to international law or established norms, and doing so with a feeling of impunity and without any regard to consequences.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/03/uk/uk-russia-cyber-attacks-intl/index.html

It is an undeclared war with few rules and potentially massive consequences.
 

Yokel

LE
What part does public complacency play in making us vulnerable to this? Twenty odd years ago I wasted £20 on something called The Book of Forbidden Knowledge and whilst it was a questionable use of £20 for was what basically a small booklet, it did talk about computer security and hacking.

In particular, it highlighted the 'it will never happen to me mentality' and the way that people fall into lazy habbits like using GUEST or 1234667890 as passwords.
 
I’m under no illusions whatsoever that the western powers such as the UK or the USA etc have been pristine examples of how to conduct their business in an open and transparent manner and not leverage events to their advantage.

But despite our interference in the affairs of others, in comparison with those other regimes mentioned in this thread, we would still walk away and potentially qualify for sainthood!
Depends on where you place the slider on the time-scale. Direct comparisons will always place the West in the realm of sainthood. Historically weighted on the other hand, not perhaps so much.
 

Dark_Nit

LE
Book Reviewer
The Septics are even pressuring Germany and the EU to give up on the European/Russian northern gas pipeline. But what business is it of theirs? The fact is that they want to sell their own gas to the EU, even though Europe doesn't have the facilities to process it at the moment. The Septics also want to sell their fracked oil, but the European plants aren't built to process such light oil, so the Septics want more plants built. How stupid is that?

MsG
Utter bollocks. [As usual]

UK refineries are perfectly well equipped to deal with both light and heavy crudes. In fact, North Sea Brent Crude is both light and "sweet" [low sulphur] which is the principal crude oil used by UK refineries.

Given Vlad the Impaler's current intentions, I consider that relying on Russian gas is a "bad thing" and that we should definitely have a credible plan B.
 
Utter bollocks. [As usual]

UK refineries are perfectly well equipped to deal with both light and heavy crudes. In fact, North Sea Brent Crude is both light and "sweet" [low sulphur] which is the principal crude oil used by UK refineries.

Given Vlad the Impaler's current intentions, I consider that relying on Russian gas is a "bad thing" and that we should definitely have a credible plan B.
Add to that the number of Chinese built nuclear powerstations, it won't be hard for them to do a Stuxnet if they built them
 

Dark_Nit

LE
Book Reviewer
If @DaManBugs got his way the Chinese would be running the UK as a socialist satellite state.

Strangely enough I might well be described as a SME on nuclear and oil industries as four of the big 6 energy generation companies are customers plus a certain nuclear facility that shall not be named.

His complete bollocks on UK oil refining are a typical google failure.

His meds must have worn off or else he's just got a new batch of brown.
 
The thought that the Chinese might become the next global superpower is well on the way and in no small part to their unrelenting cyber theft. As a result of this massive theft of US military technology it is enabling the recent modernisation and expansion in both quantity and quality of China’s Navy, together with it’s increasingly belligerent confrontations, resulting in a serious and significant shifting of the balance of power in the Pacific.

China may still be behind the US in projecting firepower on a global scale but can now challenge American military supremacy in waters around Taiwan and the disputed South China Sea. China does not need military defeat to rule these waters, simply one that makes US intervention in the area a seriously expensive option. Its development and advances through theft of military technology from the US in radar, missiles, stealth aircraft have allowed it to help neutralise the edge the USN has, up till recently enjoyed in this theatre.

As Admiral P S Davidson recently confirmed to the Senate at his confirmation as the Commander of the US Indo-Pacific Command, short of war China has achieved a state of control in the S China Sea. He described China as a peer competitor by means of asymmetric capability in submarines and anti-ship missiles. China now has the worlds largest Navy and although the US for now retains a technological edge it has become increasingly vulnerable in numbers.

Chinese warships and aircraft have picked up the pace of operations in the waters off Japan, Taiwan, and the islands, shoals and reefs it has claimed in the South China Sea over the objections of Vietnam and the Philippines. President Xi Chinping stood beside President Barack Obama promising not to militarise the artificial islands, but China has since acknowledged deploying missiles there, saying this became necessary due to American “incursions” in Chinese waters.

This expansion in China’s Navy has been marked under Xi along with his purge on corruption within China’s military. China’s naval expansion began in 2000 but accelerated sharply after Mr. Xi took command in 2013. He has drastically shifted the military’s focus to naval as well as air and strategic rocket forces, while purging commanders accused of corruption and cutting the traditional land forces.

The PLA has shrunk in order to free up resources for a more modern force. The army cutting 300,000 enlisted soldiers and officers down to two million personnel compared with 1.4 million in the US in addition to significant gains in asymmetrical weaponry. One focus what American military planners call A2/AD, for “anti-access/area denial,” or the Chinese call “counter-intervention.”

A main feature high-speed ballistic missiles designed to strike moving ships. The latest versions, the DF-21D and, since 2016, the DF-26 “carrier killers,” designed to take out America’s principle naval weapons before they get close to China.
The DF-26 appeared in a military parade in Beijing in 2015. Tested in the Bohai Sea 2017 has a range that would allow it to menace ships and bases as far away as Guam, according a Pentagon report released this month. These missiles almost impossible to detect and intercept, directed at moving targets by increasingly sophisticated Chinese networks of radar and satellites.
China's New Carrier-Killer Missile Could Mean Big Trouble for the Navy
China has a new hypersonic anti-ship missile that it claims could destroy a US warship in one hit
https://media.defense.gov/2018/Aug/16/2001955282/-1/-1/1/2018-CHINA-MILITARY-POWER-REPORT.PDF

These supplemented by the deployment this year of missiles on three Chinese bases in the Spratly Islands: Fiery Cross, Subi and Mischief Reefs. The new YJ-12B anti-ship cruise missile in the South China Sea puts most of the waters between the Philippines and Vietnam in range.
China Deploys YJ-12B and HQ-9B Missiles on South China Sea Islands

The seriousness of the increasing confrontation has prompted high level action.
World War 3 alert: US and China in high-level military meeting TODAY
 
A vital cyberwar struggle is at present ongoing with the use of digital attacks by various countries and nations on others with the aim of creating significant theft damage, death or physical destruction. Involving spies, hackers and digital weapons projects it remains an ill-defined area of conflict that is increasing in intensity and lethality and hard to track back to the attacker.

Present day economies are almost entirely dependent upon computers in every single facet of day to day running. Government function, banks, food supplies, communications, health system, factories of every kind, defence, global travel. Every day these are being probed for weakness. News is being manipulated, company secrets are being stolen, defence projects infiltrated.

At present attacks by individual hackers, or even groups is not considered to be cyberwarfare, unless, aided and directed by a state. However countries are now providing support to hackers thereby creating plausible deniability for their own actions. Attacks and warfare by any other name.

At present International law is not up to speed with relevant legislation, however it is swiftly being recognised that due to the scope and quantity of the cyber menace from China, Russia, Iran, and N Korea, effective global legislation is urgently necessary.

A NATO cyber defence think-tank the Cooperative Cyber Defence Centre of Excellence (CDCOE) has been established in Tallinn Estonia to figure out how to improve the digital defences of NATO members, and, how cyberwar will actually be defined.
The new art of war: How trolls, hackers and spies are rewriting the rules of conflict

China has leapt forward economically and militarily through state sponsored theft of data from other countries, its biggest targets military secrets from the USA. Each theft saving China years in research and massive amounts of funding. China’s Ministry of State Security and the PLA have stolen massive amounts of data from every major US military program in what the Director of the US NSA has stated is the biggest transfer/theft of wealth in history.

China simply denies everything. For years the US has been unwilling to upset the Chinese and US companies to lose potential customers. President Obama tentatively raised it with Presided Xi again met with blanket denial. Trump however has been a little more blunt. The present trade war has been designed to punish China for their pillaging of secrets.

Russia’s activities are becoming more exposed, and Russian espionage, theft of information goes back years. More recently however officials in the UK and US have seen Russia pre-positioning in critical infrastructure in a way that could be used for destructive acts of sabotage with Putin openly declaring that Russia is preparing for War.
The Next Russian Attack Will Be Far Worse than Bots and Trolls
The West’s Confusion over Russia’s Cyberwars - Carnegie Europe - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

Iran is also a protagonist and is considered an increased threat since the US withdrew from the nuclear agreement.
Officials: Iran has made preparations for possible cyberattack on U.S.
US officials are bracing for cyberattacks in retaliation for sanctions on Iran

North Korea is no slouch when it comes to this field of conflict and has rapidly taken to the cyber battlefield.
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/11/asia/north-korea-technological-capabilities/index.html
Go analogue like old british aircraft which had less reliance on computers +mass control in all ways. Everything from having cash still to using paper not digital if poss. Have manual overide systems on aircraft. Have more farmers markets where u shop with wooden basket like on keith floyd years back that business cycle ppl did not worry about hacking. Emp- herf- pranks or attacks are worse than average hack as the microchips- nano chips are easily destroyed. Just mention a few examples as key areas food security- air defence- civil economics could be linked for governance. Politicans are paid in shares by banks and corporations- ie supermarkets that want too much monopolistic control. As such the risk of outside interference is much greater.
 
Go analogue like old british aircraft which had less reliance on computers +mass control in all ways. Everything from having cash still to using paper not digital if poss. Have manual overide systems on aircraft. Have more farmers markets where u shop with wooden basket like on keith floyd years back that business cycle ppl did not worry about hacking. Emp- herf- pranks or attacks are worse than average hack as the microchips- nano chips are easily destroyed. Just mention a few examples as key areas food security- air defence- civil economics could be linked for governance. Politicans are paid in shares by banks and corporations- ie supermarkets that want too much monopolistic control. As such the risk of outside interference is much greater.
Was that Google-translated from Russian, in a building in St.Petersburg, by any chance?
 
Interesting evolution in tactics from Russian trollers. Before they tried to pose as ‘from this side but not agreeing.’ Now it is blatant provocation and derision with little attempt to hide which side they are from.

Either way works for them as they are paid by quantity of output. This way requires little subtlety, no thought, just slagging off, ie the common Russian approach...brute force and ignorance.
 
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Boeing has canceled a satellite order worth over $200 million, from a U.S.-based startup. The company had received the bulk of its funding from a Chinese-government owned financial company and the deal could give China access to sensitive technology.

This while relations between Washington and Beijing have been at an all-time low over industrial espionage and intellectual property theft. U.S. law prevents any American company from selling satellites or certain related technologies directly to the Chinese government or companies based in China.

A report from a leading US paper had drawn attention to links between the official buyer, Global IP, and some Chinese government operated entities including people with big connections to China’s military establishment. The present administration’s foreign policy has focused on stopping doubtful U.S.-Chinese deals, China’s industrial espionage, and any other Chinese trade practices that don’t align with U.S. interests.
Boeing Backs Out of Global IP Satellite Order Financed by China

The CFO of Chinese communications giant Huawei and daughter of its founder, has been arrested by Canada at at the U.S. government’s request. The United States alleges that Huawei, under Meng’s direction, skirted U.S. and international sanctions against Iran. The latest National Defence Authorisation Act, barrs the U.S. military from dealing with Huawei, as well as it major Chinese competitor ZTE, over concerns that Chinese intelligence exploits those links. Huawei has also been accused in the past of intellectual property theft by major US tech companies.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/05/tech/huawei-cfo-arrested-canada/index.html
 
Chinese hackers recently breached a US Navy contractor working for the Naval Undersea Warfare Center, and apparently stole 614 GB of data about submarine and undersea weapons technology. China has also targeted US satellite, telecoms and geospatial imaging firms.

CEO of the threat tracking firm Binary Defense Systems, D Kennedy who formerly worked at the NSA and the USMC signal intelligence unit has stated that China has now focussed on military trade secrets, military preparedness, military readiness, satellite communications and the US’s ability to keep a cyber or military edge.

Other researchers have found evidence ofChinese intrusions US geospatial imagery company, and at least two private satellite companies including one from the US, and a US defense contractor. The breaches were deliberate and targeted, and in the case of the satellite firms the hackers moved through to reach the control systems of actual orbiting satellites, where they could have impacted a satellite's trajectory or disrupted data flow.
Chinese hackers reportedly stole data related to secret projects from a US Navy contractor
U.S. warns of new hacking spree from group linked to China | Reuters

Meanwhile the Russian GRU have been accused of operating without regard to international law or established norms, and doing so with a feeling of impunity and without any regard to consequences.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/03/uk/uk-russia-cyber-attacks-intl/index.html

It is an undeclared war with few rules and potentially massive consequences.
Remember Concordski, sometimes espionage has a sting in it's tale

Allegedly a spy known as “Ace” was responsible for stealing over 90,000 technical documents regarding Concorde, except what they got had been tampered by a double agent leading to the Concordski

I hope that is what's happening here, and the leaks are deliberate rather than incompetence
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
RIP
This is about all means short of actual kinetic war (so far), for Russia and China 'what we can get away with' and for China 'softly softly catchee monkey'. It includes the militarisation of the atolls in the S China Sea which has been carried out to the point where Chinese dominance is now absolute and the facilities can only be got rid of by physical action. China is also creating a maritime glacis via 'investment' in various island States in the Pacific.

It could even be argued that the 'failed' Salisbury Novichok attack is even more effective, because by turning the intended victim into a permanent invalid the warning to other defectors is even more stark.

Mrs M's naïve failure to follow Trump on sanctions against Iran after that country has bene caught lying (such a surprise) about its nuclear doings shows that we have yet to get a grip on all this, as does, indeed, Trump's naievete over Kim's entirely cosmetic and cost-free gestures regarding 'Peace'.

As to our key infrastructure facilities Mrs M needs to hammer away at and in effect sanction CEOs and NHS bosses who are not currently binning complacency (a long term British disease) and getting a grip on their computery.
 
Russia’s internet trolling has been used in Frances latest ‘Yellow Vest’ unrest. French authorities have launched an investigation into social media activity from accounts allegedly encouraging the unrest and getting support for the protests.

It has been reported that hundreds of online accounts linked to Russia were used to stoke the demonstrations. Citing analysis by New Knowledge, a cybersecurity company the accounts apparently spread disinformation using pictures of injured protesters from other events to create a picture of brutality by French authorities.
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
 
In light of recent moves with regard to Huawei by the US and Canada it is interesting to see how concerns continue to mount agains the massive online pillaging of secrets by China.

It has been over long in coming. For years common sense alone must have triggered a sense of unease over the huge hold that this company had on IT hardware in numerous countries.

Every day that passes sees everyone becoming more dependent upon the wired world we are presently living in.

Unfortunately open stable door swinging disconsolately in the wind is an image that comes to mind.

If Huawei has a security problem, what exactly is it?

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

It continues to raise serious doubts as to how compromised various countries already are from not only China but the other known suspects who are openly hostile, and have worked hard to excell on this new digital battle field. One where conflict, attacks, counter attack and defence are already being furiously waged.
 
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This was an interesting* bit:

However, for all this concern, no evidence has ever materialized publicly beyond very general, very vague “security risks.” It’s not like the White House and U.S. politics are especially secure — just look at the plethora of public details available around the specifics of Russia’s election meddling in 2016.
*Wholly predictable in a Sax Rohmer fashion.
 
Russia’s internet trolling has been used in Frances latest ‘Yellow Vest’ unrest. French authorities have launched an investigation into social media activity from accounts allegedly encouraging the unrest and getting support for the protests.

It has been reported that hundreds of online accounts linked to Russia were used to stoke the demonstrations. Citing analysis by New Knowledge, a cybersecurity company the accounts apparently spread disinformation using pictures of injured protesters from other events to create a picture of brutality by French authorities.
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
Well, let's look how Putin's agitprop works using following article as an example. Would you be so kind to comment it?
UK Elite 'Horrified' "Russian Aggression" Fairytale Starts to Crumble - Journo
UK media and parliamentarians have voiced concern over the fact that the UK's largest online pharmacy, which has links to the NHS, has been 'caught' advertising with Russia's RT television network. Sputnik has discussed another anti-Russia campaign spread in the UK media with political commentator and journalist Ollie Richardson.
Ollie Richardson: In geopolitics, it is always a good practice to proceed from the fact that statements contain projection and are formulated inside a certain cognitive framework. For example, if "democracy" truly exists, then why is there a need to shout about its alleged existence all the time? Russia doesn't do this, because it factually is an actual democracy. Russian citizens are allowed to hold anti-government protests and rallies provided that all legal norms are observed. I can't say the same for the UK, or for the EU in general. The current unrest in France is simply one example of this.
Do you think that it is just a private opinion or something else - blatant agitprop for example? Or maybe there is at least a bit of bitter thruth?
Mr.Richardson also said
London's anti-Russia scheme isn't bringing the desired results. I.e., attempts are being made to manipulate the British people at the emotional (subjective) level because the empirical reality is inconvenient. This will continue in the UK until the internal socio-economic situation collapses. I reiterate, refer to the current situation in France for a preview of what is to come.
Was Sputnik news agency correct to publish this interview? What do you think?
 

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