The hidden, ongoing and escalating war.

A vital cyberwar struggle is at present ongoing with the use of digital attacks by various countries and nations on others with the aim of creating significant theft damage, death or physical destruction. Involving spies, hackers and digital weapons projects it remains an ill-defined area of conflict that is increasing in intensity and lethality and hard to track back to the attacker.

Present day economies are almost entirely dependent upon computers in every single facet of day to day running. Government function, banks, food supplies, communications, health system, factories of every kind, defence, global travel. Every day these are being probed for weakness. News is being manipulated, company secrets are being stolen, defence projects infiltrated.

At present attacks by individual hackers, or even groups is not considered to be cyberwarfare, unless, aided and directed by a state. However countries are now providing support to hackers thereby creating plausible deniability for their own actions. Attacks and warfare by any other name.

At present International law is not up to speed with relevant legislation, however it is swiftly being recognised that due to the scope and quantity of the cyber menace from China, Russia, Iran, and N Korea, effective global legislation is urgently necessary.

A NATO cyber defence think-tank the Cooperative Cyber Defence Centre of Excellence (CDCOE) has been established in Tallinn Estonia to figure out how to improve the digital defences of NATO members, and, how cyberwar will actually be defined.
The new art of war: How trolls, hackers and spies are rewriting the rules of conflict

China has leapt forward economically and militarily through state sponsored theft of data from other countries, its biggest targets military secrets from the USA. Each theft saving China years in research and massive amounts of funding. China’s Ministry of State Security and the PLA have stolen massive amounts of data from every major US military program in what the Director of the US NSA has stated is the biggest transfer/theft of wealth in history.

China simply denies everything. For years the US has been unwilling to upset the Chinese and US companies to lose potential customers. President Obama tentatively raised it with Presided Xi again met with blanket denial. Trump however has been a little more blunt. The present trade war has been designed to punish China for their pillaging of secrets.

Russia’s activities are becoming more exposed, and Russian espionage, theft of information goes back years. More recently however officials in the UK and US have seen Russia pre-positioning in critical infrastructure in a way that could be used for destructive acts of sabotage with Putin openly declaring that Russia is preparing for War.
The Next Russian Attack Will Be Far Worse than Bots and Trolls
The West’s Confusion over Russia’s Cyberwars - Carnegie Europe - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

Iran is also a protagonist and is considered an increased threat since the US withdrew from the nuclear agreement.
Officials: Iran has made preparations for possible cyberattack on U.S.
US officials are bracing for cyberattacks in retaliation for sanctions on Iran

North Korea is no slouch when it comes to this field of conflict and has rapidly taken to the cyber battlefield.
https://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/11/asia/north-korea-technological-capabilities/index.html
 
At present International law is not up to speed with relevant legislation, however it is swiftly being recognised that due to the scope and quantity of the cyber menace from China, Russia, Iran, and N Korea, effective global legislation is urgently necessary.
If Russia feels able to send assassins to another sovereign nation and use nerve agent on dissidents irrespective of risk of collateral, what makes you think an international law is going to stop them hacking?
 
It's not just Russia, remember Stuxnet

I don't think international law is much of a concern for many nations when it comes to cyber

This has been coming quite a while
 
If Russia feels able to send assassins to another sovereign nation and use nerve agent on dissidents irrespective of risk of collateral, what makes you think an international law is going to stop them hacking?
Russia feels not only able to send assassins, which it has done, and to conduct cyberwar which it is doing. International law will simply recognise that, the consequences are already in motion.

Russia is being exposed, exclude, and sanctioned, as are China, Iran, and N Korea.

There are very real consequences that are being felt right now by each of these countries
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
Russia feels not only able to send assassins, which it has done, and to conduct cyberwar which it is doing. International law will simply recognise that, the consequences are already in motion.

Russia is being exposed, exclude, and sanctioned, as are China, Iran, and N Korea.

There are very real consequences that are being felt right now by each of these countries
So what? The Septics (along with the UK) have been constant in their undermining (and destruction) of democracies across the globe for decades. Now other nations are striking back and suddenly it's unfair? Get a grip, please!

MsG
 
So what? The Septics (along with the UK) have been constant in their undermining (and destruction) of democracies across the globe for decades. Now other nations are striking back and suddenly it's unfair? Get a grip, please!
It is indeed business as usual, if only in a new theatre.

No need to get dramatic, it is being attended to, and commented upon. Grip is being firmly held.
 
So what? The Septics (along with the UK) have been constant in their undermining (and destruction) of democracies across the globe for decades. Now other nations are striking back and suddenly it's unfair? Get a grip, please!MsG
This is about countries like Russia and China etc carrying out activities that could lead to war. You know as I do that Russia, China, North Korea and The present regime in Iran are not real democracies.

And yet your first response is “so what!” It’s not others who need to get a grip. It’s you!!

I see the world once again starting to get very ugly on a global scale and your response based on your ideology, ignores the facts that we could one day have another world war and with so many players having nuclear weapons, it could be armageddon.

What will your response be to that...... “so What?”
 

endure

GCM
This is about countries like Russia and China etc carrying out activities that could lead to war. You know as I do that Russia, China, North Korea and The present regime in Iran are not real democracies.
The last Iranian democracy was overthrown in 1953 by MI6 and the CIA at the behest of what is now BP. Let's not pretend that we're all shiny and pure.
 
The last Iranian democracy was overthrown in 1953 by MI6 and the CIA at the behest of what is now BP. Let's not pretend that we're all shiny and pure.
We are not, and nor are they.

Who do you think, of those mentioned so far, historically, and to the present date, have a greater commitment to human rights?
 
Some years ago my lad spent a year in Israel as part of his degree course. A colleague of his was in Damascus at the same time, as part of hers.
Comparing notes, back in UK, he recalled air-conditioned accommodation, good food, friendly natives, etc.
She recalled frequent power cuts, usually preceded by radio and TV announcements along the lines of " your power will go off in 3 minutes, thank you for your cooperation, mossad."


True or not, I cannot say.
 
The last Iranian democracy was overthrown in 1953 by MI6 and the CIA at the behest of what is now BP. Let's not pretend that we're all shiny and pure.
I’m under no illusions whatsoever that the western powers such as the UK or the USA etc have been pristine examples of how to conduct their business in an open and transparent manner and not leverage events to their advantage.

But despite our interference in the affairs of others, in comparison with those other regimes mentioned in this thread, we would still walk away and potentially qualify for sainthood!
 
There are very real consequences that are being felt right now by each of these countries
There may be sanctions for any given 'thing' be it failure to allow arms inspectors in, attempts to gain nuclear weapons and and and etc.

Those sanctions may be being felt by the general populace.

Those sanctions have not been enough to stop the activity for what the sanction has been imposed, to cause the pariah country's government to adopt other policies, or to cause the populace enough hardship to make them rise up and effect regime change.

So about as much use as tits on a fish.
 
Some years ago my lad spent a year in Israel as part of his degree course. A colleague of his was in Damascus at the same time, as part of hers.
Comparing notes, back in UK, he recalled air-conditioned accommodation, good food, friendly natives, etc.
She recalled frequent power cuts, usually preceded by radio and TV announcements along the lines of " your power will go off in 3 minutes, thank you for your cooperation, mossad."


True or not, I cannot say.
I spent 2 years (2014 to 2016) in Syria, air-conditioned accommodation, good food, friendly natives etc and any power cuts were mitigated by a reliable emergency back up!
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
This is about countries like Russia and China etc carrying out activities that could lead to war. You know as I do that Russia, China, North Korea and The present regime in Iran are not real democracies.

And yet your first response is “so what!” It’s not others who need to get a grip. It’s you!!

I see the world once again starting to get very ugly on a global scale and your response based on your ideology, ignores the facts that we could one day have another world war and with so many players having nuclear weapons, it could be armageddon.

What will your response be to that...... “so What?”
I believe you'll find that it's the Septics who're doing all the threatening with nuclear weapons, as well as with conventional means. And now Trump has withdrawn from the INF with the immortal words: "We're richer than any other country in the world, we'll build it up until they (Russia and China) come to their senses".

I think you'd be very hard put to find one single example in the last ten years of either Russia or China openly threatening war. What you appear to misconstrue as "war talk" on their part is their simply responding to the constant threats of war from the Septics. What both countries have made very clear is that they're far more interested in trade deals than war. And just because both of them have effectively thwarted the Septic plans for a US world economy, they're portrayed as war-mongers.

The Septics are even pressuring Germany and the EU to give up on the European/Russian northern gas pipeline. But what business is it of theirs? The fact is that they want to sell their own gas to the EU, even though Europe doesn't have the facilities to process it at the moment. The Septics also want to sell their fracked oil, but the European plants aren't built to process such light oil, so the Septics want more plants built. How stupid is that?

MsG
 
So what? The Septics (along with the UK) have been constant in their undermining (and destruction) of democracies across the globe for decades. Now other nations are striking back and suddenly it's unfair? Get a grip, please!

MsG
Dont forget East Germany, we did for that one too.
 
And now Trump has withdrawn from the INF with the immortal words: "We're richer than any other country in the world, we'll build it up until they (Russia and China) come to their senses".

MsG

Thats exactly how Reagan destroyed the Soviet Union with fairing a single shot
 
I
I think you'd be very hard put to find one single example in the last ten years of either Russia or China openly threatening war. What you appear to misconstrue as "war talk" on their part is their simply responding to the constant threats of war from the Septics.
MsG
Ignoring the Crimea obviously as they simply engaged in a war without declaring it - so its fair to say they havent threatened war in Crimea

How about threatening war if Georgia is admitted to NATO


Never mind engaging in criminal acts that could provoke conflict here in the UK

China meanwhile claims the Pacific ocean and everything in it (ok slight exaggeration) as Chinese and threatens escalations to anyone who sails in international waters they claim

But yes sure Russia and China are like all Left wing nations paragons of virtue and only ever victims of Pseudo fascist states and their propaganda
 

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