The hardest fight of all for a Falklands hero

#2
If Tumbledown asked a nation whether it should feel guilty about sending young men to kill with broken bayonets,
Now there's a change, the Governement sending Troops to war with inferior equipment.
 
#3
There is an interesting novel by Mark Billingham called "Lifeless". ISBN 0-7515-3616-4 Time Warner Books.

The story is a bit bollocks but it is full of interesting facts about homeless ex-Servicemen and just how many of them there are.

There is a link to this topic on another ARRSE thread

www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=4371.html

Also you can say what you like about the Septics but there are things they do well. Saw this on CNN International this morning

http://www.fisherhouse.org/
 
#4
shaka said:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,,1989980,00.html

All that is known is that, during the ensuing 25 years, more Falklands veterans have committed suicide than the 255 that died during hostilities.
Well worth a read, thank you for posting the link.
 
#6
sparkysapper said:
If Tumbledown asked a nation whether it should feel guilty about sending young men to kill with broken bayonets,
Now there's a change, the Governement sending Troops to war with inferior equipment.
I feel for young Laurence but I've read Tim Spicer's account of the battle and I don't believe broken bayonets was a problem. The reason for fixing bayonets in the first place was a concern that there wasn't enough ammo. How did the young chap finish up breaking his? The article doesn't explain that?
 
#7
His experiences formed the script for the controversial BBC film Tumbledown, a graphic portrayal of the Falklands conflict that raised questions over how a nation treated its wounded

Good to see this hasnt changed either!! :threaten:
 
#8
meiktilaman said:
His experiences formed the script for the controversial BBC film Tumbledown, a graphic portrayal of the Falklands conflict that raised questions over how a nation treated its wounded

Good to see this hasnt changed either!! :threaten:
I saw the original and remember the controversy but still feel that his case has been sensationalised. He is an unfortunate figure who was young, gifted and brilliant and has had his life changed so detrimentally but it does beg the question: what does one expect as a soldier? Especially in a situation where the combat is far removed from adequate hospital facilities?

I find that many other servicemen who have suffered as much do not make it such a public event and wonder what he, with his diminished responsibility, and the people who now guide him through life, were hoping to achieve then, and now? If it is a financial gain for him to speak out then by all means let him do it but bear in mind that there are other views.

I also wonder what kind of a person would he be now if he had come through unscathed - would he have the same opinions and would he advise others to be so public and sensational?
 
#9
GDav said:
How did the young chap finish up breaking his? The article doesn't explain that?
I believe it was broken whilst being used.
 
#10
Onetap said:
GDav said:
How did the young chap finish up breaking his? The article doesn't explain that?
I believe it was broken whilst being used.
I was guessing that. Thanks for confirming. How does Sparkysapper see that as supply of faulty kit I wonder? I certainly don't remember there being any fundamental issues with the L1A3 bayonet - does anyone else here?

In the absence of any affirmative answers I'm going to say that kind of proves what I'm saying: that some people are willing to jump on the bandwagon of sensationalism if it suits their mindset or agenda.
 
#11
GDav said:
Onetap said:
GDav said:
How did the young chap finish up breaking his? The article doesn't explain that?
I believe it was broken whilst being used.
I was guessing that. Thanks for confirming. How does Sparkysapper see that as supply of faulty kit I wonder? I certainly don't remember there being any fundamental issues with the L1A3 bayonet - does anyone else here?

In the absence of any affirmative answers I'm going to say that kind of proves what I'm saying: that some people are willing to jump on the bandwagon of sensationalism if it suits their mindset or agenda.


I have still got my SLR bayonet and it is a very strong piece of kit.It must have took a hell of a lot of force to break it,it must be at least a quarter of an inch thick
 
#12
RHODESIAN said:
GDav said:
Onetap said:
GDav said:
How did the young chap finish up breaking his? The article doesn't explain that?
I believe it was broken whilst being used.
I was guessing that. Thanks for confirming. How does Sparkysapper see that as supply of faulty kit I wonder? I certainly don't remember there being any fundamental issues with the L1A3 bayonet - does anyone else here?

In the absence of any affirmative answers I'm going to say that kind of proves what I'm saying: that some people are willing to jump on the bandwagon of sensationalism if it suits their mindset or agenda.


I have still got my SLR bayonet and it is a very strong piece of kit.It must have took a hell of a lot of force to break it,it must be at least a quarter of an inch thick
I agree but I would also say that bayonets have broken before in the heat of battle. It is known that Lawrence was quite a gung-ho chap and he has admitted himself that he loved the adrenalin rush in combat and combat itself. I'd say it was, perhaps not easy, but more than possible to break a bayonet in those circumstances but it didn't indicate any inherent weakness in the item itself. So the idea of it being a substandard piece of kit is out the window.

Now if you were to raise the subject of the footwear worn by the task-force, then perhaps I would agree because my understanding is that the boots were woefully inadequate and there was a high incidence of trench foot. A condition which crops up again and again in British Military history.
 
#13
I didn't go to the Falklands I left in 1979 but some of my mates did and I think they still had the fantastic bit of kit called the DMS boot which turned out to be worse than useless
 
#14
GDav said:
meiktilaman said:
His experiences formed the script for the controversial BBC film Tumbledown, a graphic portrayal of the Falklands conflict that raised questions over how a nation treated its wounded

Good to see this hasnt changed either!! :threaten:
I saw the original and remember the controversy but still feel that his case has been sensationalised. He is an unfortunate figure who was young, gifted and brilliant and has had his life changed so detrimentally but it does beg the question: what does one expect as a soldier? Especially in a situation where the combat is far removed from adequate hospital facilities?

I find that many other servicemen who have suffered as much do not make it such a public event and wonder what he, with his diminished responsibility, and the people who now guide him through life, were hoping to achieve then, and now? If it is a financial gain for him to speak out then by all means let him do it but bear in mind that there are other views.

I also wonder what kind of a person would he be now if he had come through unscathed - would he have the same opinions and would he advise others to be so public and sensational?
I think it was more how he was treated on returning to the UK and not as an insult to the green and maroon life saving machine working out of Ajax Bay who worked miracles in not losing a life a life after the wounded reached them.

If i remember rightly when Mr Lawrence went the Buck House to receive hi well earned MC he was treated quite shabbily
 
#15
RHODESIAN said:
I didn't go to the Falklands I left in 1979 but some of my mates did and I think they still had the fantastic bit of kit called the DMS boot which turned out to be worse than useless
Problem with a boot is: if it doesn't let water in - it hold sweat in. The outcome is the same, constantly wet feet and ultimately, trench foot.

Have they cured the problem yet?
 
#17
meiktilaman said:
GDav said:
meiktilaman said:
His experiences formed the script for the controversial BBC film Tumbledown, a graphic portrayal of the Falklands conflict that raised questions over how a nation treated its wounded

Good to see this hasnt changed either!! :threaten:
I saw the original and remember the controversy but still feel that his case has been sensationalised. He is an unfortunate figure who was young, gifted and brilliant and has had his life changed so detrimentally but it does beg the question: what does one expect as a soldier? Especially in a situation where the combat is far removed from adequate hospital facilities?

I find that many other servicemen who have suffered as much do not make it such a public event and wonder what he, with his diminished responsibility, and the people who now guide him through life, were hoping to achieve then, and now? If it is a financial gain for him to speak out then by all means let him do it but bear in mind that there are other views.

I also wonder what kind of a person would he be now if he had come through unscathed - would he have the same opinions and would he advise others to be so public and sensational?
I think it was more how he was treated on returning to the UK and not as an insult to the green and maroon life saving machine working out of Ajax Bay who worked miracles in not losing a life a life after the wounded reached them.

If i remember rightly when Mr Lawrence went the Buck House to receive hi well earned MC he was treated quite shabbily
You see I'm not convinced he was. What appears to be the problem is that he was not carried on the shoulders of others and proclaimed a hero throughout the land. I've read some of statements and it seems he reacted very badly at not being pushed into the public eye at every available opportunity.

It can be forgiven him. He has suffered a serious head wound which many others wouldn't have recovered from. He's bound to have pyschological problems well beyond the very worst cases of PTSD. It becomes a problem however when we accept his perceptions as the truth.

He fought well and recovered remarkably but he is not, and never will be, totally recovered. In my considered and most respectful opinion we should empathise with him and applaud him for his achievements but not take his comments as 100% gospel.
 
#18
meiktilaman said:
Ermmm nope!
So the only answer is to ensure adequate supplies of dry socks and ensure that each soldier airs and dries his feet several times a day - otherwise the problem will remain.
 
#19
GDav said:
meiktilaman said:
GDav said:
meiktilaman said:
His experiences formed the script for the controversial BBC film Tumbledown, a graphic portrayal of the Falklands conflict that raised questions over how a nation treated its wounded

Good to see this hasnt changed either!! :threaten:
I saw the original and remember the controversy but still feel that his case has been sensationalised. He is an unfortunate figure who was young, gifted and brilliant and has had his life changed so detrimentally but it does beg the question: what does one expect as a soldier? Especially in a situation where the combat is far removed from adequate hospital facilities?

I find that many other servicemen who have suffered as much do not make it such a public event and wonder what he, with his diminished responsibility, and the people who now guide him through life, were hoping to achieve then, and now? If it is a financial gain for him to speak out then by all means let him do it but bear in mind that there are other views.

I also wonder what kind of a person would he be now if he had come through unscathed - would he have the same opinions and would he advise others to be so public and sensational?
I think it was more how he was treated on returning to the UK and not as an insult to the green and maroon life saving machine working out of Ajax Bay who worked miracles in not losing a life a life after the wounded reached them.

If i remember rightly when Mr Lawrence went the Buck House to receive hi well earned MC he was treated quite shabbily
You see I'm not convinced he was. What appears to be the problem is that he was not carried on the shoulders of others and proclaimed a hero throughout the land. I've read some of statements and it seems he reacted very badly at not being pushed into the public eye at every available opportunity.

It can be forgiven him. He has suffered a serious head wound which many others wouldn't have recovered from. He's bound to have pyschological problems well beyond the very worst cases of PTSD. It becomes a problem however when we accept his perceptions as the truth.

He fought well and recovered remarkably but he is not, and never will be, totally recovered. In my considered and most respectful opinion we should empathise with him and applaud him for his achievements but not take his comments as 100% gospel.
No mate I agree with you he came across as an arrogant arrse in that film and having spoken to a friend who was in the Scots Guards at the time he was !
 
#20
meiktilaman said:
GDav said:
meiktilaman said:
GDav said:
meiktilaman said:
His experiences formed the script for the controversial BBC film Tumbledown, a graphic portrayal of the Falklands conflict that raised questions over how a nation treated its wounded

Good to see this hasnt changed either!! :threaten:
I saw the original and remember the controversy but still feel that his case has been sensationalised. He is an unfortunate figure who was young, gifted and brilliant and has had his life changed so detrimentally but it does beg the question: what does one expect as a soldier? Especially in a situation where the combat is far removed from adequate hospital facilities?

I find that many other servicemen who have suffered as much do not make it such a public event and wonder what he, with his diminished responsibility, and the people who now guide him through life, were hoping to achieve then, and now? If it is a financial gain for him to speak out then by all means let him do it but bear in mind that there are other views.

I also wonder what kind of a person would he be now if he had come through unscathed - would he have the same opinions and would he advise others to be so public and sensational?
I think it was more how he was treated on returning to the UK and not as an insult to the green and maroon life saving machine working out of Ajax Bay who worked miracles in not losing a life a life after the wounded reached them.

If i remember rightly when Mr Lawrence went the Buck House to receive hi well earned MC he was treated quite shabbily
You see I'm not convinced he was. What appears to be the problem is that he was not carried on the shoulders of others and proclaimed a hero throughout the land. I've read some of statements and it seems he reacted very badly at not being pushed into the public eye at every available opportunity.

It can be forgiven him. He has suffered a serious head wound which many others wouldn't have recovered from. He's bound to have pyschological problems well beyond the very worst cases of PTSD. It becomes a problem however when we accept his perceptions as the truth.

He fought well and recovered remarkably but he is not, and never will be, totally recovered. In my considered and most respectful opinion we should empathise with him and applaud him for his achievements but not take his comments as 100% gospel.
No mate I agree with you he came across as an arrogant arrse in that film and having spoken to a friend who was in the Scots Guards at the time he was !
I agree, which just goes to show that even heroes are imperfect. I mean look at Blair Mayne? A remarkable man in so many senses but had so many fault too?

Life ain't perfect.
 

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