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The Green Machine...do the warts ever come off?

goodoldboy

MIA
Book Reviewer
You've clearly never tried, whilst half asleep, to unfasten, and re-fasten Velcro.

It's not a one-handed task
You're right, I haven't. It just crossed my mind that, what with Ciggie now being a civilian and only using his bag for the odd leisure night in the warm and dry forest, it may save him a bit of money. Thanks for making the point about emergency exits though.
 
I think it was the 1960s before cheaper synthetic fibres allowed the average soldier the pleasure of sleeping in the standard issue green maggot.
That was when the technology became available. Work your way back up this thread, to where I bitched about the failure to grasp this, leading to 20 years of soldiers freezing their giblets off in shiite dossbags, minimally stuffed with shagged out feathers

Do Keep Up :thumleft:
 

HE117

LE
The shrapnel bombardment of which you speak required airburst over the barbed wire within very narrow parameters. Shrapnel is of course is an anti personnel ammunition and not really suited to the task, but it was what we had in large numbers. Somebody posted the shrapnel animation below on another thread.

What was needed was more HE rounds that would better cut wire.

The ‘graze’ fuze was a development of the basic impact fuze, which previously had required a straight-on impact to be confident of it functioning. The ‘graze’ redesign allows the projectile to land at an angle and still work. The ultimate development of the concept is the ‘all-ways acting’ fuze often used in aircraft bombs. It doesn’t care which way it lands.

I don’t know when ‘graze’ fuzes were developed. Again, I’m sure @HE117 will know... :)
Graze fuzes are basically the same as concussion fuzes, and were in fact developed before percussion fuzes..

The 119 fuze was known as a DA and Graze fuze.. it had a plunger in the nose and an inertia pellet which gave the graze effect. It was mostly used for creating a short delay as the inertia pellet was slightly slower acting. 119 could be fired with the fuze cap on which blocked the impact pin and only detonated on the graze pellet. This was typically used when shelling buildings or forested areas so the shell would not detonate on the roof or in the branches..

Graze fuses will also work when fired at narrow angles of impact such as parapets and reverse slopes, but they still need the projectile to be relatively stable.

Allways fuzes such as the 247 used in the 69 grenade and the 82 Gammon bomb or the fuze in the Italian Red Devil grenade are inherently dangerous as they have, almost by definition, very sensitive actions and invariably unreliable safety mechanisms. Many of the German electrical bomb fuzes were all ways acting, but this is more because they were transversely mounted.. most bombs are reasonably stable in flight. Most of the RAF bomb pistols are pretty simple "nail in a cork" types with a spinny propeller arming screw..

My favourite fuze was the Swiss DIXI fuze that was used on 105 Illuminating shell.. it was powered by ball bearings running round a conical track and was a work of genius, although the German Dust fuze for the SD10 bomb is a close second.. it worked by dust flowing through the fuze creating sufficient electrical charge to arm the firing circuit!
 

HE117

LE
That was when the technology became available. Work your way back up this thread, to where I bitched about the failure to grasp this, leading to 20 years of soldiers freezing their giblets off in shiite dossbags, minimally stuffed with shagged out feathers

Do Keep Up :thumleft:
You sure about that? The maggots I had in the 70s were all feather filled!

... as I vividly recall from an incident involving a Nigerian cadet, doss bag, a GPMG and a belt of 30 blank..!
 
Fuses ignited my interest in all things that go bang.
As a ten year old i got a book from the library about artillery, and it explained how some clever git came up with the idea of a fuse which had a gunpowder filled straw that was wrapped around the explosive and you could adjust the time to detonation by twisting the head of the shell, this was lit by the propulsion charge and would burn away for as long as it was set . Thus no more need for a direct hit to kill the poor f#ckers in the trenches.
Get the timing right and it would rain down ball bearings and other nasty stuff from above.
 
You sure about that? The maggots I had in the 70s were all feather filled!

... as I vividly recall from an incident involving a Nigerian cadet, doss bag, a GPMG and a belt of 30 blank..!
My mates dad sewed up a down filled quilt into its cover then sewed a sleeping bag zip round it. It was the absolute bollocks when we went camping, I was well jealous in my 58 fart sack
 

Ciggie

GCM
You're right, I haven't. It just crossed my mind that, what with Ciggie now being a civilian and only using his bag for the odd leisure night in the warm and dry forest, it may save him a bit of money. Thanks for making the point about emergency exits though.
Despite what Stonker said about egress, I think I'll look into that...may be a good solution...am definitely going to have to get velcro fitted to the Arctic, just to pack the fecking thing up.
 
You sure about that? The maggots I had in the 70s were all feather filled!

... as I vividly recall from an incident involving a Nigerian cadet, doss bag, a GPMG and a belt of 30 blank..!
I don't dispute that they all had feathers in.

'Filled' on the other hand, is moot.​
Many of the doss bags I saw/used back in the day (having been frequently used and subsequently laundered), if held up against the light would display very clearly that the once-fluffy down had lost 99% of its natural oils, and with them its 'loft', so - instead of filling the individual quilted pockets as they might have on leaving the factory, the sad tattered remnants could be seen sitting in tiny piles in a corner of each pocket, tumbling from one corner to the next if the fabric was rotated.​
Hence my observation ( a looong way upthread) about the inadquacy of the design criteria when they were first introduced.​
 
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Kirkz

LE
I don't dispute that they all had feathers in.

'Filled' on the other hand, is moot.​
Many of the doss bags I saw/used back in the day (having been frequently used and subsequently laundered), if held up against the light would display very clearly that the once-fluffy down had lost 99% of its natural oils, and with them its 'loft', so - instead of filling the individual quilted pockets as they might have on leaving the factory, the sad tattered remnants could be seen sitting in tiny piles in a corner of each pocket, tumbling from one corner to the next if the fabric was rotated.​
Hence my observation ( a looong way upthread) about the inadquacy of the design criteria when they were first introduced.​
Still got my down filled doss bag that I was issued with and it's still as good as the day it was issued.
But then I had a spare one I bought off a lad in the barracks that I used on exercise and that was properly fucked and almost devoid of feathers when I handed it in.
 
Still got my down filled doss bag that I was issued with and it's still as good as the day it was issued.
But then I had a spare one I bought off a lad in the barracks that I used on exercise and that was properly fucked and almost devoid of feathers when I handed it in.
A pre-fucked doss bag? What are the chances of getting one of them?
 

Kirkz

LE
A pre-fucked doss bag? What are the chances of getting one of them?
Depends on how much the lad wants to go out on the piss the night before room inspection.
 

HE117

LE
I forgot to say - I bet that was a surprise and a big larfff!! :-D
Hmm

It took us about three hours to separate the bits...!
 
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Are the current crop of squaddies still using the same sleeping system that was introduced in 1990 that replaced the '58 pattern maggot, out of a matter of idle interest? The one that came with as a set of bag, compression sack & the bivvy bag. Or has that been replaced now as well by something more up to date.
From memory it was still quite chunky even when the maggot was wrestled into the stuff sack.
 
Are the current crop of squaddies still using the same sleeping system that was introduced in 1990 that replaced the '58 pattern maggot, out of a matter of idle interest? The one that came with as a set of bag, compression sack & the bivvy bag. Or has that been replaced now as well by something more up to date.
From memory it was still quite chunky even when the maggot was wrestled into the stuff sack.
I actually preferred the 58 pattern to that one. Even with the compression sack it was too bulky. A lot of the lads bought their own snugpack bags.
 
Are the current crop of squaddies still using the same sleeping system that was introduced in 1990 that replaced the '58 pattern maggot, out of a matter of idle interest? The one that came with as a set of bag, compression sack & the bivvy bag. Or has that been replaced now as well by something more up to date.
From memory it was still quite chunky even when the maggot was wrestled into the stuff sack.
The current crop, as well as former, don’t really like being called Squaddies.
As for the sleeping system, the 90 pattern is still largely in circulation but it has been replaced on a gradual phase out with an Italian made sleeping system.
The new system is still comprising a cotton tie in liner (like the old, will tie you up like a horny hungry anaconda, in your sleep), main sleeping bag, goretex outer.
The new Italian bag is very good but I prefer the 90 pattern because it’s wider at the foot and hood end, purely because I roll around a lot in my sleep. There’s not much room to fidget about in the new one, which is a nause when you’re trying to find the all important love sock.
New one is ideal if you’re just kipping in your kecks and a T-shirt camping style, the 90 pattern is best if you’re kipping full dressed combat camping style.
 
I prefer the 90 pattern, and have happily sacrificed Bergen weight to carry one, because there’s nothing better on a piss wrapped night on the area, than zipping into the 6 foot green time machine, then letting the Man At Q and M dhobi it for you, for free.
Like the Jersey Heavy Wool, I’ve taken the bomb on every tour and exercise I’ve been on, hot or cold. As is my preference
 
The current crop, as well as former, don’t really like being called Squaddies.
As for the sleeping system, the 90 pattern is still largely in circulation but it has been replaced on a gradual phase out with an Italian made sleeping system.
The new system is still comprising a cotton tie in liner (like the old, will tie you up like a horny hungry anaconda, in your sleep), main sleeping bag, goretex outer.
The new Italian bag is very good but I prefer the 90 pattern because it’s wider at the foot and hood end, purely because I roll around a lot in my sleep. There’s not much room to fidget about in the new one, which is a nause when you’re trying to find the all important love sock.
New one is ideal if you’re just kipping in your kecks and a T-shirt camping style, the 90 pattern is best if you’re kipping full dressed combat camping style.

As an ex squaddie myself I’ve never objected to the term & never heard anyone else dislike it either. In fact, a term I personally use with pride


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the same sleeping system that was introduced in 1990 that replaced the '58 pattern maggot, out of a matter of idle interest? The one that came with as a set of bag, compression sack & the bivvy bag.
IIRC correctly, that one was designed (in keeping with the whole CS95 philosophy) to be capable fo service 'in all theatres'.

Which meant 'good enough for Arctic Norway' at one end and probably Belize at t'other, with Cyprus somewhere in the middle.

As a single item, it was bound to fail on at least one count, even if nobody using it in Norway ever got slightly chilly.

And it was, indeed, a very, very chunky item.
 
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