The Green Berets

#1
The Green Berets

Anyone Watch “The Green Berets” on channel 5 tonight? I remember seeing it in 1968 in Tidworth. Probably before most of the posters on this site were even born?

At the time, I thought it was great film. It was “The War” which dominated the news daily.

That good old draft dodger John Wayne, playing John Wane was brill. SSGT Barry Sadler’s (ex Green Beret) song was very popular as well. The “Maroon Machine” adopted it as their own with the obvious changes!

Watching it today, it all seems rather sad (apart from having a shoit house named after you!)

Ah well, time moves on at too fast a pace.

Happy days. :wink:
 
#2
Were my eyes deceiving me, or did a couple of the characters have a type of M-16 that fired larger calibre rounds (7.62?) than the normal 5.56? :?
 
#3
Oh dear oh dear!!!! By the 'Maroon Machine' Rumrunner are you referring to the para band lads that did well in the 'Opportunity Knocks' programme at the time or the unit as a whole?
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
#4
purple_foot said:
Were my eyes deceiving me, or did a couple of the characters have a type of M-16 that fired larger calibre rounds (7.62?) than the normal 5.56? :?
Shirley that was the M15?

I have always understood that we decided to ditch .303" immediately after WW2 because the 303 round was far to powerful for the modern battlefield and came up with the EM2 - the SA80 of its day. However, the Septics had built factories churning out 7.62mm by the slack million and if NATO didn't standardise - sorry standardize - on 7.62, they'd throw their teddy bears out of the pram. So we threw away the EM2 and bought the SLR virtually off-the-shelf from FN.

The septics promptly went off to fight wars in Korea and Nam and realised that we had been right: in a modern war you didn't need a round to fly a mile or more, still keeping people all those miles downrange. So, having built the M15 around a 7.62mm round and then fired off all their stockpiles of 7.62, they designed it again, around a 5.56mm round, as the M16.

But it isn't my specialist subject and I apologise in advance for any bollix I have talked.

Edited to accept the sobriquet "Knob" for using the words "throw your teddy bear out of the pram" twice in one sentence: corrected.

Edited again cos me first attempt was sh!te.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
The Green Berets - a film so accurate that the sun sets in the east.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#8
AR10 were the 7.62 version or in fact forerunner, the 5.56 round was developed from the .222 or something similar. In the film the US use mainly early M16 in the model known to us as AR15. They also used lots of M1 carbines and 1914A4 .30 Brownings.
Anorack and spotter mode off!
 
#9
I especially like the part where the guy takes a direct hit from incoming mortar fire and all thats left are two boots with smoke coming out- sooo realistic.
 
#10
ugly said:
AR10 were the 7.62 version or in fact forerunner, the 5.56 round was developed from the .222 or something similar. In the film the US use mainly early M16 in the model known to us as AR15. They also used lots of M1 carbines and 1914A4 .30 Brownings.Anorack and spotter mode off!
The reason for that is that the ARVN were supplied with Garands, M3 grease guns, M14s, Thompsons etc during the period. Later after the US forces had been re-equipped with the 5.56 then the ARVN were also given them, but this wasn't until around 1970. Although the Green Berets was made in 68 it is based on the book written in 66 and was supposed to be set in the period when the base camp strategy was around and the US Army complement was not fully in place.

An excellent film set in 64/65 period is 'Go Tell the Spartans' which features the US still dressed in the early 60's greens with yellow insignia and name tags as worn in Europe. They also carry M3 and M14s. :wink:
 
#11
And featured Burt Lancaster, that old leftie. Probably why he took the opportunity to star in this movie, considering the 'slant' of that movie. I agree however it's a good one.
 
#12
Red Shrek said:
I think the Car-15's where mostly used by SF in Vietnam.
CAR 15 - Colt Automatic Rifle 15 was the original designation of the weapon that was adopted by the US Army as the M16!

The 7.62 version was the CAR14. I assume, but cannot confirm that this is the same as the M15. Seems logical.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#13
CAR usually signifies a short barrelled collapsing stock Carbine!
The first rifles purchased were AR15 by the British for Borneo. The 7.62 version was the AR10, AR pretty easy to work that one out, The US Air Force became the First US Customers of the AR 15 and when it was sold to Colt as Armalite couldnt produce enough it was known by its accepeted service designation M16.
The 7.62 service rifle in the US at the time was the M14. Not much more than an M1 Garandwith a detachable box magazine in the new Calibre!
 
#14
intli said:
ugly said:
AR10 were the 7.62 version or in fact forerunner, the 5.56 round was developed from the .222 or something similar. In the film the US use mainly early M16 in the model known to us as AR15. They also used lots of M1 carbines and 1914A4 .30 Brownings.Anorack and spotter mode off!
The reason for that is that the ARVN were supplied with Garands, M3 grease guns, M14s, Thompsons etc during the period. Later after the US forces had been re-equipped with the 5.56 then the ARVN were also given them, but this wasn't until around 1970. Although the Green Berets was made in 68 it is based on the book written in 66 and was supposed to be set in the period when the base camp strategy was around and the US Army complement was not fully in place.

An excellent film set in 64/65 period is 'Go Tell the Spartans' which features the US still dressed in the early 60's greens with yellow insignia and name tags as worn in Europe. They also carry M3 and M14s. :wink:
The green berets had an astounding array of weaponry given their role in unconventional warfare. There is actually a recorded case of an officer that had a luger. Trip_Wire also posted an interesting article not long ago about a Wehrmacht veteran that was a green beret in vietnam who preferred his mauser 98 rifle.

It truly is an interesting subject that is ripe for a serious attempt by hollywood.

Actually, there's an interesting videogame, Vietcong,, that is pretty accurate. It got american uniforms completely wrong unfortunately (the ARVN, CIDG, NVA, and VC uniforms, as well as the montagnard's traditional dress are all spot on though :) ).
 
#15
bob_lawlaw said:
And featured Burt Lancaster, that old leftie. Probably why he took the opportunity to star in this movie, considering the 'slant' of that movie. I agree however it's a good one.
....and Star Trek's Mr Sulu as an ARVN officer IIRC. Doesn't he lop some bloke's head off with a sword?

The Green Berets had Mike Henry, the '60s Tarzan in it. When he's killed, John Wayne seems more disgusted that the VC took his weapon (the little devils!). Like the bit where matey is yanked out of the jungle on a wire.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#16
I liked the bit where the press were introduced at fort Bragg and all the lads were armed with m1 carbines, not an M14 on show despite being standard since 1957, shows how good for jungles the old M1 was. Only SF would have hung onto those out of choice. The Engineers driving the bulldozers had them too but I suspect not through choice. Interesting tactic there to clear very large fields of fire and every tree in your compound, very different from Borneo tactics if what I have read is true!
 
#17
LankyPullThrough said:
bob_lawlaw said:
And featured Burt Lancaster, that old leftie. Probably why he took the opportunity to star in this movie, considering the 'slant' of that movie. I agree however it's a good one.
....and Star Trek's Mr Sulu as an ARVN officer IIRC. Doesn't he lop some bloke's head off with a sword?

The Green Berets had Mike Henry, the '60s Tarzan in it. When he's killed, John Wayne seems more disgusted that the VC took his weapon (the little devils!). Like the bit where matey is yanked out of the jungle on a wire.
I think you are having a hazy memory. Wayne finds the body with 3 VC. He says 'He must have killed 'em all, otherwise they would have taken his weapon!'. He then smashes said weapon against tree to prevent it being used by the enemy (or anyone else for that matter!) :wink:
 
#18
My Burt Lancaster reference was for his role in 'Go Tell the Spartans' by the way
 
#19
intli said:
LankyPullThrough said:
bob_lawlaw said:
And featured Burt Lancaster, that old leftie. Probably why he took the opportunity to star in this movie, considering the 'slant' of that movie. I agree however it's a good one.
....and Star Trek's Mr Sulu as an ARVN officer IIRC. Doesn't he lop some bloke's head off with a sword?

The Green Berets had Mike Henry, the '60s Tarzan in it. When he's killed, John Wayne seems more disgusted that the VC took his weapon (the little devils!). Like the bit where matey is yanked out of the jungle on a wire.
I think you are having a hazy memory. Wayne finds the body with 3 VC. He says 'He must have killed 'em all, otherwise they would have taken his weapon!'. He then smashes said weapon against tree to prevent it being used by the enemy (or anyone else for that matter!) :wink:
I stand suitably corrected :oops: My apologies. If I'm wrong about Mr Sulu in 'Go Tell the Spartans' too I'd better try and stay sober over Christmas to conserve what retention I have left.

Does my memory serve me any better regarding the end of The Green Berets: doesn't Big John tell some precocious stage school child actor that he's what this is all about? It made me think ruefully of 'the girl in the photo' running from the napalm attack.
 
#20
LankyPullThrough said:
intli said:
LankyPullThrough said:
bob_lawlaw said:
And featured Burt Lancaster, that old leftie. Probably why he took the opportunity to star in this movie, considering the 'slant' of that movie. I agree however it's a good one.
....and Star Trek's Mr Sulu as an ARVN officer IIRC. Doesn't he lop some bloke's head off with a sword?

The Green Berets had Mike Henry, the '60s Tarzan in it. When he's killed, John Wayne seems more disgusted that the VC took his weapon (the little devils!). Like the bit where matey is yanked out of the jungle on a wire.
I think you are having a hazy memory. Wayne finds the body with 3 VC. He says 'He must have killed 'em all, otherwise they would have taken his weapon!'. He then smashes said weapon against tree to prevent it being used by the enemy (or anyone else for that matter!) :wink:
I stand suitably corrected :oops: My apologies. If I'm wrong about Mr Sulu in 'Go Tell the Spartans' too I'd better try and stay sober over Christmas to conserve what retention I have left.

Does my memory serve me any better regarding the end of The Green Berets: doesn't Big John tell some precocious stage school child actor that he's what this is all about? It made me think ruefully of 'the girl in the photo' running from the napalm attack.
Not JW but the journalist played by David Jansen I think.


EDIT
The Sulu chappie IS in TGB. Don't know about the sword but he does use a booby trap under an sandbag emplacement to deal with some treacherous troops.
 

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