The Glorious Corps Dinner

#1
Apologies if this has been covered already but I can't find it if it has.

OK, why are we still going to the Savoy for the Corps dinner? It's expensive, the food is crap, the service is diabolical and, most importantly, we can't all fit in.

It's great that young officers are coming to it now but why do we limit regts to 10 places when they want 30?

The TA should be included but there will inevitably be a sour taste when their presence limits regulars and when they have a separate dinner of their own.

There was talk that we were committed to a contract with the Savoy but I seem to remember that it finished last year. So what the hell are we doing back there again this year?

Interested to know if anyone has the real answer.
 
#2
Excuse the interuption, nothing to do with your dinner, but a serious question,,,,

how long have you been calling yourselves "The Glorious Corps" ... :?:
....or was it a typo and should read "The Gloria's Corps" :?:


Just a question .
 
#3
Typo? Did someone say typo?

Who is goggles anyway? Two posts????
 
#4
Is this the same Corps dinner that all the RSMs go to and is paid for by the Mess Fund that some of them don't pay into or is that the RSMs dinner and I'm getting all confused here ?
 
#5
Glorious Corps Dinner is correct. If we were purporting to be a Glorious Corps who are having a dinner it would of course be The Glorious Corps' Dinner. So tigger, before having a dig at someone, especially when you come from a regiment that is the poor man's cavalry you ought to brush up on your grammar and syntax and I would really recommend study of the possessive and causative.

The dinner is of course 'glorious' however, we are in danger of creating a rival function for the 20 or so officers from each regiment who cannot attend due to ticket rationing.

It is slightly puzzling that we can't fit in to the Savoy when we only have 900 or so officers in the Corps. Take out a 100 or so who are serving in Spain, Italy, USA, Cyprus etc and you are left with 800 trying to get in to a room for 600. Big question is, do all those who attend still pay Corps subs, and if not should they get priority over an officer who does pay subs??
 
#6
Scotchsilk said:
Glorious Corps Dinner is correct. If we were purporting to be a Glorious Corps who are having a dinner it would of course be The Glorious Corps' Dinner. So tigger, before having a dig at someone, especially when you come from a regiment that is the poor man's cavalry quote]

.....( You forgot to mention with quite substantial battle honours for a young regt)

However SS, please excuse me for being under the misapprehension you chaps had a sense of humour.............hope your dinners go well in the future, .................and all who would want to, can attend.

ps..Please excuse my terrible grammar and English, but never have professed to be something I am not.
 
#8
You are excused tigger. We are also young, unsung and do have humour but also with a good spash of justice. We accept digs when appropriate but not when they are mis-directed.

Best officer I ever knew was RTR, commanded 4 RTR and 11 Armd Bde, 'Doug the Thug'.

Alas he will not come to our dinner, where did you say you hold your annual bash tigger??
 
#9
IFR_goggles said:
The TA should be included but there will inevitably be a sour taste when their presence limits regulars...
Why?

msr
 
#11
When is the Corps going to take into cosideration the date of the Army v Navy rugby game when organising the Coprs dinner? THey are both top events in the social calender, but alas it appears that those people stationed overseas will have to miss either one due to being unable to travel back to London two weeks in a row. It is fine for those stationed in the UK, but for us singlies overseas it becomes a financial embuggarance

Surely a bit more 'social calender awareness' when going firm on a date for the corps dinner will ensure these clashes are avoided in the future. Everybody knows that the Army v Navy is the first sat in may. It is sad that the Corps is never able to tie the date of the corps dinner in with the ruggers. I know that far more people would attend both socials if this was the case.

Incidently there will always be the social diehards that will be in attendance at both - myself included
 
#12
11D said
When is the Corps going to take into cosideration the date of the Army v Navy rugby game when organising the Coprs dinner? THey are both top events in the social calender

What you say makes sense but we must remember that these two functions have grown in popularity at the same time. 15 years ago the Corps Dinner was about 200 or so in the IPC near Fleet Street and the Army V Navy was 1 marquee, about 200 from the Coprs and only about 6K in the crowd. It is now 600 (maxed out) at dinner and 1200 at the rugby with 40K in the crowd

The Corps dinner has always been second tuesday in May and the AvN 1st Sat in May. It worked out 3 years ago ( what a weekend that was!!)

perhaps if the Dinner moves away from the Savoy to meet growing demand it might also come forward a week. But work it out, how many times will the dinner and match be split by 4 days and how many by 3 days
 
#13
I'm glad someone has started a string on the Corps Dinner and to see some good points being raised.
I have been disappointed by the dinner in recent years for a number of reasons.
1. Anyone attending should be paying subscriptions that is not currently the case.
2. While there is a restriction on numbers AGC and REME officers should certainly not be attending they have the last 2 years
3. No 1 precludes the attendance of the majority if not all TA officers.
4. If we are going to have loyal toasts, speeches and a state of the nation from the wee fellow from Stranraer then people should generally remember their manners and sit down and shut up while they are going on. Otherwise the formal part of the evening should be abandoned and it should just become an informal black tie dinner which allows people to circulate freely to meet and chat with old friends. On the evidence of the last 2 years it is neither one nor the other of these 2 possibilities.
5. If you have not tried the Corps Dinner North give it a go and you will be pleasantly surprised at the contrast.
 
#14
TA Officers do not pay subscriptions, but each TA Regt pays the equivillent out of it's Mess funds to the Corps each year. Therefore you should not attack the TA, but pity the poor regulars attached to TA units who are in effect paying twice! :?
 

DangerMouse

Old-Salt
Moderator
#15
chalkntalk said:
I'm glad someone has started a string on the Corps Dinner and to see some good points being raised.
I have been disappointed by the dinner in recent years for a number of reasons.
1. Anyone attending should be paying subscriptions that is not currently the case.
2. While there is a restriction on numbers AGC and REME officers should certainly not be attending they have the last 2 years
3. No 1 precludes the attendance of the majority if not all TA officers.
4. If we are going to have loyal toasts, speeches and a state of the nation from the wee fellow from Stranraer then people should generally remember their manners and sit down and shut up while they are going on. Otherwise the formal part of the evening should be abandoned and it should just become an informal black tie dinner which allows people to circulate freely to meet and chat with old friends. On the evidence of the last 2 years it is neither one nor the other of these 2 possibilities.
5. If you have not tried the Corps Dinner North give it a go and you will be pleasantly surprised at the contrast.
That all makes sense, it's just a pity that the powers that be seem to be oblivious. A change of venue from the Savoy, a larger location, a presumption in favour of R SIGNALS officers only (unless there are surplus tickets), and limiting it to only those who pay subs would be huge changes for the better. (I concur, personally, with the suggestion that it should be Regular officers only. I was TA a long time ago, but I believe that, notional 'One Army' rubbish aside, this is the main chance for the regular Corps to get together and officers should not be precluded from attending because TA people are taking up tickets.)

Who's 'in charge' of the Corps Dinner Night? Presumably it's someone at Blandford? ...ChalkNTalk - you're at Blandford, aren't you? - do your intranet terminals have access to the RLI internet gateway? If so, perhaps you could forward a link to this page to the aforementioned powers that be?? :D
 
#16
DangerMouse said:
and officers should not be precluded from attending because TA people are taking up tickets.
You pompous twit.

msr
 

DangerMouse

Old-Salt
Moderator
#17
msr said:
IFR_goggles said:
The TA should be included but there will inevitably be a sour taste when their presence limits regulars...
Why?

msr
msr said:
DangerMouse said:
and officers should not be precluded from attending because TA people are taking up tickets.
You pompous twit.
msr
Very constructive, thank you for making the effort to contribute, msr. I'm sure we all appreciate your efforts there. For extra marks next time try to better yourself - consider developing a line of reasoning, perhaps even drawing some conclusions, or offering an opinion. If however you're keen to stick with personal abuse, perhaps you could join the kids in the NAAFI Bar.

To remind you of the questions raised:

IFR_goggles said:
It's great that young officers are coming to it now but why do we limit regts to 10 places when they want 30?
Scotchsilk said:
The dinner is of course 'glorious' however, we are in danger of creating a rival function for the 20 or so officers from each regiment who cannot attend due to ticket rationing.

It is slightly puzzling that we can't fit in to the Savoy when we only have 900 or so officers in the Corps. Take out a 100 or so who are serving in Spain, Italy, USA, Cyprus etc and you are left with 800 trying to get in to a room for 600. Big question is, do all those who attend still pay Corps subs, and if not should they get priority over an officer who does pay subs??
I meant no disrespect to the TA, nor specifically to 33 Sig Regt (V), of which I see you are a member, msr (I was 80 Sig Sqn (V) at university, so I may even have known you).

- The consensus seems to be, uncontroversially, that we wish to have an opportunity for people to get together and see their mates from Sandhurst, Tp Comds' Course, Sqn Comds' Cse, and so on.

- There are not enough places to do that if both Regular Army and TA attend the same function, as at present.

- The TA and the Regular Army are different organisations, and the TA does not have the same esprit de corps. Regular officers spend 44 weeks together at RMAS (TA 3 weeks), 21 weeks together on Tp Comds' Cse (TA 2 weeks) Five months together at JDSC (TA 10 days) [until recently], and serve together in Regts and on operations for years (TA - enough MTDs for a bounty).

This is not TA-baiting, it is recognising the genuine, and enormous, chasm that exists between the Regular Army and TA. That's why a number of us have questioned the presence of TA at the Corps dinner, msr.

Remember - constructive answers of more than a couple of lines are encouraged... :mrgreen:

It's not 'One Army'.
 
#18
DangerMouse said:
- The TA and the Regular Army are different organisations, and the TA does not have the same esprit de corps. Regular officers spend 44 weeks together at RMAS (TA 3 weeks)
Clearly the 3 weeks I spent at Sandhurst didn't condition me to think inside the box...

If there aren't places for everyone at the Corps dinner, then move it to somewhere that can offer enough space...

I trust that the presence of TA officers didn't in any way detract from your enjoyment of the Corps Dinner.

msr
 
#19
I have to say that I was quite disappointed by your premise Dangermouse that TA officers are in any way less eligible to attend the Corps Dinner than regular officers. Many of the TA officers I know have spent much longer in the Corps than you patently have (evident from the fact that you attend a TC rather than a CQ or indeed Q Cse). By your rather flawed logic (time spent serving together seeming to be the over-riding prerequisite) then the dinner should be filled on a rank basis given that generally the more senior one is, the longer one has served - not a particularly edifying thought if you ask me.

What your replies have also done however, is demonstrate a rather blinkered and if I might say so, jaundiced, view of the TA R SIGNALS officer (and I note your previous TA experience). Yes, there are undoubtedly those who are limited and indeed many who have not deployed on operations. Conversely, there are a great many who demonstrate leadership and command abilites up there with the best and equally a great number who have deployed on operations. I count myself exceedingly fortunate to have served alongside some of these people. (Of course there is a third group - those ex-regular officers who left and joined the TA. Would they be allowed to attend or not Dangermouse?)

I do think that msr has made the correct point though; if there are more applications to attend than there are spaces, find a bigger venue. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more for the ability to dine alongside all my fellow officers who want to/can attend.
 
#20
The dinner was great and it was good to see that many officers not able to get tickets still travelled and joined in the party as much as they could. Gen Stokoe did a great job in setting the tone for the night.

It is worth having this debate, and that is what it is or should be if some of the more bigoted viewpoints are ignored.

It is very difficult to find a venue to hold a dinner for more than 600. We are the biggest dinner the Savoy handles each year. I accept that the Hilton Park Lane and the Grosvenor Hotel can both hold a dinner for up to 800 but the cost would be approx 50% more than we pay at present ( we went to the Hilton in 1995 if you recall and had an extra-ordinary grant from Corps funds to do this)

Some people display a lack of understanding of what the Corps Dinner is. It is a Dinner Club, set up by Royal Signals officers to re-unite once per year at a suitable venue. There are in fact 2 such dinners per year; The London Dinner and the Northern Dinner ( although this term is now synonymous with the Scottish Dinner) They attract subsidy from Corps funds in recognition that officers contribute 1 and 3/4 days pay to funds. It is an extra-ordinary grant that must be agreed by the Corps Committee each year.

Dinners for seniority and such like ( limiting attendance per se) are the Corps Guests nights held twice a year in the HQ Mess. All Lt Cols and above and any other officer with more than 25 years service is invited to attend.

The debate therefore falls in to the following division given it is unlikely we can get a bigger venue: Do we limit attendance by adherence to the requirement to be a current subscription paying member of the Corps ( this option would prevent the majority of TA attending) or, Do we adopt a first come first served basis rewarding those units and individuals with good admin.

It is a healthy debate, and one we must have but to come off the fence slightly - I think it is abhorrent to prevent young officers from attending and learning the tradition of our Corps as they are prevented ( by seniority) from attending formal Corps Guest nights in Blandford.
 
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