The General Election : The Guardian Backs...

#3
The most left-wing party standing nationally? Your surprise comes from where?
 
#4
Idrach said:
The most left-wing party standing nationally? Your surprise comes from where?
The most left wing party is currently the bnp closely followed by socialist labour.
 
#5
Craven_A said:
Idrach said:
The most left-wing party standing nationally? Your surprise comes from where?
The most left wing party is currently the bnp.
A joke surely.
 
#6
Monty417 said:
Craven_A said:
Idrach said:
The most left-wing party standing nationally? Your surprise comes from where?
The most left wing party is currently the bnp.
A joke surely.
Only to right leaning members who joined for reasons of racist bigotry.
 
#7
I would have said the Greens were the most left wing party standing throughout the UK. Hippies in the midst of being taken over by hard-line Marxists.
 
#8
Craven_A said:
Monty417 said:
Craven_A said:
Idrach said:
The most left-wing party standing nationally? Your surprise comes from where?
The most left wing party is currently the bnp.
A joke surely.
Only to right leaning members who joined for reasons of racist bigotry.
I understand left wing to be essentially egalitarian.

IE. A person or group who believes in the equality of all people, favoring social equality; "a classless society."

Hardly defines the BNP. :) or fucking Labour anymore either.
 
#9
Monty417 said:
Craven_A said:
Idrach said:
The most left-wing party standing nationally? Your surprise comes from where?
The most left wing party is currently the bnp.
A joke surely.
The BNP are National Socialists, about as left wing as you get.



Left wing tutors have spent decades desperately trying to re-brand National Socialism is extreme right wing. Even coming up with some BS about how the left/right line is actually a circle. No its just a lie.
 
#10
Monty417 said:
I understand left wing to be essentially egalitarian.

IE. A person or group who believes in the equality of all people, favoring social equality; "a classless society."

Hardly defines the BNP. :) or fucking Labour anymore either.
You are mistaking social/class equality for national/racial equality.
 
#11
Craven_A said:
Monty417 said:
I understand left wing to be essentially egalitarian.

IE. A person or group who believes in the equality of all people, favoring social equality; "a classless society."

Hardly defines the BNP. :) or fucking Labour anymore either.
You are mistaking social equality for national/racial equality.

I take your point, but strict definition of left wing would exclude the BNP. We'll have to disagree, as many do on this one, I'll stick with this.....

The British National Party (BNP) is a far-right political party formed as a splinter group from the National Front by John Tyndall in 1982.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party
 
#12
tangosix said:
Hello,

the Guardian has just announced which party it will be backing at the General Election.....The Liberal Democrats:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/30/the-liberal-moment-has-come

Cynics will no doubt put this down to the prospect of the Guardian's public sector advertising revenue drying up with a Labourless government.



tangosix.

You mean their entire revenue stream?


Gruniard should be classed as an socialist advertising magazine, not a newspaper/
 
#13
Monty417 said:
I take your point, but strict definition of left wing would exclude the BNP. We'll have to disagree, as many do on this one, I'll stick with this.....

The British National Party (BNP) is a far-right political party formed as a splinter group from the National Front by John Tyndall in 1982.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party
I would encourage you to read a little wider.

The main grouping of 'the Left', Socialists, have made it their raison d'etre to oppose racists and Fascists. Ergo, racists and Fascists are of 'the Right'. Simple isn't it? Hang on, do you believe everything that Socialists want you to believe?

Socialists are not the sole occupants of the Left, and Nationalism is a position that both Left and Right can hold.

The two most notorious Fascists in history grew out of Socialism not Capitalism nor Conservatism. Fascism and Communism/Socialism are irrevocably at odds because they are fighting for the same ground, the same supporter and the same political space. There is never room for both in the same place.
 
#14
Semper_Flexibilis said:
tangosix said:
Hello,

the Guardian has just announced which party it will be backing at the General Election.....The Liberal Democrats:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/30/the-liberal-moment-has-come

Cynics will no doubt put this down to the prospect of the Guardian's public sector advertising revenue drying up with a Labourless government.



tangosix.

You mean their entire revenue stream?


Gruniard should be classed as an socialist advertising magazine, not a newspaper/
I tried to read it once when it was left on the train, not surprisingly, complete load of shite. One redeeming thing about the Sun..it has the best racing pages on a Saturday, the rest can be chucked.
 
#15
whitecity said:
Monty417 said:
I take your point, but strict definition of left wing would exclude the BNP. We'll have to disagree, as many do on this one, I'll stick with this.....

The British National Party (BNP) is a far-right political party formed as a splinter group from the National Front by John Tyndall in 1982.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party
I would encourage you to read a little wider.

The main grouping of 'the Left', Socialists, have made it their raison d'etre to oppose racists and Fascists. Ergo, racists and Fascists are of 'the Right'. Simple isn't it? Hang on, do you believe everything that Socialists want you to believe?

Socialists are not the sole occupants of the Left, and Nationalism is a position that both Left and Right can hold.

The two most notorious Fascists in history grew out of Socialism not Capitalism nor Conservatism. Fascism and Communism/Socialism are irrevocably at odds because they are fighting for the same ground, the same supporter and the same political space. There is never room for both in the same place.
I'd agree with your general theme, but I'd argue that the Nazis based themselves largely on warped visions of the past (ethnic purity), which tends to be a far-right trait (hence all the non-pure people who were murdered). In contrast, Stalin etc. based their ideology on a warped far-left vision of of the future (hence all those people killed during the USSR's forced industrialisation). Both cocks of course whose policies resulted in mountains of bodies, but both with a distinct vision.
 
#17
whitecity said:
Nationalism is a position that both Left and Right can hold.
Your right, and you can see that today.

BNP = National Socialist
UKIP = National conservative (with a small c)

That's why Griffen is standing in Barking, a very Labour area, and Farrage is standing in Buckinham, a very Tory area.

But BNP is still left wing, and UKIP is still right wing.
 
#18
Kingbingo said:
Monty417 said:
I take your point, but......., I'll stick with this.....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party

Good God Man!

Are you seriously taking wikipedia as the last word? Please tell us you don't mean that. Its the general ignorance website. Its fine as a starting point, but sure as hell not the last word.
Of course not, there are many opinions re this and Wiki just gives the standard view, but I'll go with it, purely because I haven't seen much of a better definition and also because I really don't care about what amounts to just handy words in this respect. :D
 
#19
Kingbingo said:
whitecity said:
Nationalism is a position that both Left and Right can hold.
Your right, and you can see that today.

BNP = National Socialist
UKIP = National conservative (with a small c)

That's why Griffen is standing in Barking, a very Labour area, and Farrage is standing in Buckinham, a very Tory area.

But BNP is still left wing, and UKIP is still right wing.
I'd argue that the BNP are far-right with a bit of left-wing popularism dropped in to boost support amongst former Labour voters. Their core however remains right. UKIP has a different audience, so can stay 'pure'.
 
#20
parapauk said:
Kingbingo said:
whitecity said:
Nationalism is a position that both Left and Right can hold.
Your right, and you can see that today.

BNP = National Socialist
UKIP = National conservative (with a small c)

That's why Griffen is standing in Barking, a very Labour area, and Farrage is standing in Buckinham, a very Tory area.

But BNP is still left wing, and UKIP is still right wing.
I'd argue that the BNP are far-right with a bit of left-wing popularism dropped in to boost support amongst former Labour voters. Their core however remains right. UKIP has a different audience, so can stay 'pure'.
I would say that UKIP are the closest we have to a centre-right Libertarian party. They aren't that right wing. For me the Libertarianism is the clincher.

Tubs
 

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