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The future

#1
Yesterday I met some rather nice gentlemen from the Corp of Royal Engineers. They are my new Brigade. Now in discussions with them about tour intervals, lengths of time on duty and manning they were absolutely aghast at the situation across the regt (As far as they were briefed).

None of the three RLC brigades I have recently been a member of have given a toss!

In that case maybe we are moving in the right direction into an organisation which will value us.

What do the AT's think out there, another new cap badge?

Fat Blerk and Rowley Birkin be nice!
 
#2
Cabbage, you haven't been reading my other comments.

I (as many others did) have changed cap badge once and don't, therefore, feel any particular loyalty for the poor resultant RLC. I feel the RE would support EOD better than the RLC. I admit that the trade group doesn't sit well with either Corps but that split in trade group may well be overdue (!)

I'm not so blind to think that the RE would be the answer to all that is wrong with the trade, but it's nice to see someone taking more of an interest than or current trade leadership.

It would be nice to think the trade would survive unscathed in either forum, but unlikely

My, I'm surprisingly positive today!
 
#4
Not sure how much our new wedge bde is really concerned for us, or rather just blowing their own trumpets that they are now the head of all EOD in the UK........ but I would like to pass on a couple of quotes I heard from a non-EOD Lt Col RE from 8 Force Engr Bde over the last couple of days:


Whilst discussing EOD procedures and techniques:
Col: Q, when AMT operators are dealing with a device in a box, would they consider the possibility that there might be a booby-trap in there at all, or would they just open the lid?


Same 'scalene' officer larging up EOD with 2 female police officers in the bar later that evening:
WPC: Wow, ... oooh, you're so brave. Bomb Disposal - it is really hard?
Col: No, the red wire / blue wire stuff is really very straightforward, the hard stuff is Search and dealing with big german bombs that need the nearby city to be evacuated.
(ATO Capt [leathered] in corner of bar chokes on his wine and falls over! A-Teaboy, you'd have been so proud!)
 
#5
I feel that a JSEOD regiment is not the way ahead, we will still have the same cap badge issues. Although even with a new cap badge we'll probably still get trade issues.

Bullet fixer, those comments are the same old rubbish we've all used to get into some Banbury Mudskippers knickers as a teenager.
 
#6
cabbage said:
I feel that a JSEOD regiment is not the way ahead, we will still have the same cap badge issues. Although even with a new cap badge we'll probably still get trade issues.
What like ours is a trade, theirs is a 2 week course for plumbers & plasterers?


cabbage said:
Bullet fixer, those comments are the same old rubbish we've all used to get into some Banbury Mudskippers knickers as a teenager.
Yes, I know, I've seen you in action! But no-one (even in the trade) believes my BDH stories, so in the past I have successfully pulled by regaling local skip-rats with stories about life as a bin-man!
 
#7
If I had any hair I would tear the lot out. Cue much wailing and gnashing of teeth on the Birkin estate.

Rather than a Joint EOD Regiment, an entirely separate EOD technical corps might be the answer. Lots of other countries have them and it might just put all this cap badge mullarkey to bed once and for all. However, if I may briefly return to reality, there's more chance of me growing by 9 inches over the course of a NAAFI break than there is of such a thing coming to pass. So I suggest we stay just as we are, as the much, much, much lesser of the two evils.

Just because this particular Engr officer is a nice man (some of them are, you know) it doesn't mean that it will be any good for us. What if his replacement is a thrusting upright member of the hard EOD cafe who fervently believes all their own propaganda and intends to put into practice? It really doesn't bear thinking about. And when the wedge have nicked all the best bits (IEDD) and we're left down the lab in Kineton with Spook and Blakey in charge it will be just like the good old days, complete with six EOD funerals a year. Fatblerk's cynicism about our own corps may be entirely justified, but I would suggest that his endearingly rosey view of the other lot is sadly misplaced.

There, wasn't that bad - was I?
 
#8
The question ref lids was posed to me!! Anyone who has sussed who I am (its not difficult) could imagine my retort. Went quiet for a while after that, and I became even more unfavourable with the local plod "diversity" witch.

Heyho! Even the civvies I spend a lot of time with have identified what a load of idjits the wedge can be. Personally I like most of the ones I meet, decent blokes trying to a job with just the same funding, overstretch, lamentable undermanning and a fcukwit headshed (and there lies the problem) living in the past. Never thought Id say that about anyone but us!!
 
#9
Was the question something about the future? I think the AT Trade needs to pump hundreds of BATS out of ASA and promote them super fast as they will have gained tonnes of experience listening to the old farts on continuance belly aching. We need to open up the old APB's, Dems Grounds, Proof Grounds and bring back structured progressive training within the IEDD role. Must go somethings cooking in the shower block!
 
#10
Had an interesting chat with the PANTO staff, apparently they were all fully aware that for the last three years they have accepted borderline applicants and at risk students as BATS. But this was to alleviate the manning short fall caused by a two year gap in BAT courses in the nineties. Hmm.......that`ll sort out the future of the trade then.
 
#11
Pigsick said:
Had an interesting chat with the PANTO staff, apparently they were all fully aware that for the last three years they have accepted borderline applicants and at risk students as BATS. But this was to alleviate the manning short fall caused by a two year gap in BAT courses in the nineties. Hmm.......that`ll sort out the future of the trade then.
I think NOT!
 
#12
In reply to Pigsicks comment....... have you looked around our trade recently?! 'Borderline!' ....'At Risk!' that describes your/my peer group to a tee!! The entire CEG/CEQ of AT/ATO is full of blithering, dribbling insane buffoons. Nearly all of them to a man! With of course the exception of myself...... I am of course all of those twofold......plus an ARRSE to boot! It doesnt make them bad AT/ATO's... just full of 'character'!!!

Seriously though it pains me to hear the new guys take a slagging of that type in so open a forum. We were all gobby, opinionated and nieve (hell I still am!) but I like to think we were given the benifit of the doubt until we ACTUALLY made an arrse of ourselves. Come on Pigsick! Be nice!
 
#13
Pigsick said:
short fall caused by a two year gap in BAT courses in the nineties.
And now there is a huge vaccum pulling young inexperienced AT's through at a very fast rate. Pass upgrading and they are promoted regardless of experience or ability. The two years in the early ninties with no AT basic courses was due to the couple of years that had three courses per year. What have the managers of the trade learnt? NOTHING. We are short of AT's once again so the natural "knee jerk" reaction is to have four courses a year!

Another question. Where within the bounds of the AT present posting plot can four courses worth of L/Cpl AT's per year be posted without being miss-employed? JNCO AT's are now so limited in available postings that they will gain no experience within trade before upgrading. The end product will be substandard SNCO AT's with no experience. The only way to get them through courses - including the JS course will be by lowering all standards! The only way to get a 70% pass rate on any course at the wing would be by lowering standards even today.
 
#14
The Class One course is acting as a filter.

I'll not give exact details, but lets just say that some of those who started the most recent course WILL be coming back next year.

Give them enough rope and...............

Introduce an entry standard for Upgrading? I'm sure the posties have a test in elementary stamp licking prior to theirs.
 
#15
GM, about 16 odd years ago I can remember listening to a bunch of old crusty bitter and twisted WO1's declaring that STT was a filter to get rid of the dross from the trade. No doubt this was just justification for some poor DS'ing however any form of filter in this format is dangerous. We regulate it ourselves and it allows weaker AT's weeding out competition when it comes to quals for promotion. Only a few years ago before the requirment for the STT qual to obtain WO2 was changed a certain (SSgt then) DS at the wing was very open about the fact he would never pass a Sgt and only very rarely passed a SSgt. He admitted that his actions reduced his competition for promotion. Any filter I would suggest has to be regulated.
 
#16
Perhaps we could fall back on the old filters of 3 fails and your off on the basic course and 1 fail with a failed retest and your off on the class 1. I obviously appreciate the fact that this will not help in the slightist in resolving the manning crisis. But I for one would rather be in a dying trade with the reputation it deserves than a trade that will ultimately lose everything anyway due to being full of supposed technicians that cant be employed without supervision in any aspect of the trade.
 
#17
Those class one students who will have to come back on the next upgrading were not back coursed by any malice or limiting of competition. They filtered themselves by not being able to demonstrate some basic technical ability, despite being given second chances, opportunity for extra study and training.

As I said, give them enough rope.
 
#18
No retests, 3 fails and off to the station, return to a decent pre-select.....

We do the trade no good allowing some of these muppets to pass - what are we doing...gambling that the ratio of 'numbers game survivors' to injured civvies remains un-newsworthy??

I'd be loath to take most of the BATs I've seen in the last three years on tour - in a trade that works in small teams, where does that leave us?

I resent the fact that the Army allows them to wear the same badge that my peers and I earned, and I feel genuine sympathy for the school DS, being unable to fail some of the walking dunnage they are faced with must be disheartening.







Rant over - I'll get me coat.
 
#19
medalhunterman said:
I'd be loath to take most of the BATs I've seen in the last three years on tour - in a trade that works in small teams, where does that leave us?

I resent the fact that the Army allows them to wear the same badge that my peers and I earned, and I feel genuine sympathy for the school DS, being unable to fail some of the walking dunnage they are faced with must be disheartening.
We do need to be a bit careful here. There is not a man in the trade who escapes at least one of his fellow tradesmen thinking he is a cnut! I feel sure there are men who think you'd make lovely dunnage. I know I have my admirers as pallet packing. :wink:

As for resentment about a badge we earned............at least there is one. Some of the slides we wear have been 'generously' donated! 8O
 

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