The future of vehicle fuels (LPG, CNG, LNG, Electric,?) ...

Tunnels

War Hero
Given we're phasing out gas for domestic cooking & heating and moving to electric only..... how's that going to play with grid & generation capacity when we all plug our cars in as well?
 
Given we're phasing out gas for domestic cooking & heating and moving to electric only..... how's that going to play with grid & generation capacity when we all plug our cars in as well?
Are you? I have no idea about domestic utilities in the UK or the strategy.
 
Given we're phasing out gas for domestic cooking & heating and moving to electric only..... how's that going to play with grid & generation capacity when we all plug our cars in as well?

Shush now. Nobody wants to talk about that bit......

Jesting aside, we have nowhere near enough generation capacity to move to electric propulsion right now.
Last estimate was another 9 power stations to provide enough generation to do so.
 
Hyundai/ Kia must've seen some business potential to take a $100M USD +gamble on them..

The Koreans generally are hard to please.

Indeed.
If it wasn't for that investment I would be deeply sceptical

Their product is simple. Assuming it comes in at the price claimed and the capability that they say it has then it is interesting.
Interesting enough that I'll discuss it with the grown ups at the weekly distribution review next week.
They reckon they will be delivering vehicles next year, might be time for me to look at last mile for London a bit more seriously.

If their claims and pricing are correct that is.

the spin off is that if we were to go the electric route Londoners will proably have to pay more for their food......
 
Given we're phasing out gas for domestic cooking & heating and moving to electric only..... how's that going to play with grid & generation capacity when we all plug our cars in as well?
And not forgetting the rural properties depending on LPG
 
And not forgetting the rural properties depending on LPG
How bigs their vote footprint ?
The cynical in me figures that they won't be as high on the priority list or cared about as the vote rich urban areas.
 

anglo

LE
Given we're phasing out gas for domestic cooking & heating and moving to electric only..... how's that going to play with grid & generation capacity when we all plug our cars in as well?
The UK electrical grid system is running flat out at the moment, The other day wind turbines were putting out just over 13Gw, today their output is 1.5 Gw.
The French grid is also running flat out as there appears to be very little output from the wind turbines on the continent
We are going to be in the brown stuff shortly
Click on UK maximum demand and read the window that appears

 
Oxford announces it is going zero emissions.


Starting from October this year. We have customers within the zone

Sadly for Oxford, their food prices are going up. We will be informing our customers that the charge for putting a diesel vehicle in will be passed directly to them with an admin fee added.
If they don't wish to pay, we don't wish to supply. I expect that our rivals will simply follow suit.

Zero emission technology is not mature enough for us to comply and won't be for several years.
There isn't a viable refrigerated electric van available yet. Certainly not to match customer density or distance from distribution hub to serve Oxford.

Oxford is the first but it will be followed by many others.
Net result is that the consumer will pay more.
 

anglo

LE
Oxford announces it is going zero emissions.


Starting from October this year. We have customers within the zone

Sadly for Oxford, their food prices are going up. We will be informing our customers that the charge for putting a diesel vehicle in will be passed directly to them with an admin fee added.
If they don't wish to pay, we don't wish to supply. I expect that our rivals will simply follow suit.

Zero emission technology is not mature enough for us to comply and won't be for several years.
There isn't a viable refrigerated electric van available yet. Certainly not to match customer density or distance from distribution hub to serve Oxford.

Oxford is the first but it will be followed by many others.
Net result is that the consumer will pay more.
Another tax, more money for the council to squander
 
Another tax, more money for the council to squander
Indeed. Whilst I get the air quality argument, I even agree with some of that argument, it is a demand without a solution.
Initially the zero emission zone will run 07.00-19.00hrs. We are already informing our customers that they will have to make delivery possible at 05.00 or pay a delivery charge.

We won't be covering the additional cost.

We have begun actively looking at zero emission last mile delivery but the technical solution is nowhere near and the options on the horizon are at least double the cost of the diesel options.
We currently pay £26k for fridge vans built to our spec, the closest available electric option costs £65k and has an estimated range of 50 miles. The range is estimated because nobody has actually built one yet.
Trouble is with electric, if the weather is cold then battery range is reduced, if the weather is hot then the fridge needs to draw more power and range is reduced.....
 
Indeed. Whilst I get the air quality argument, I even agree with some of that argument, it is a demand without a solution.
Initially the zero emission zone will run 07.00-19.00hrs. We are already informing our customers that they will have to make delivery possible at 05.00 or pay a delivery charge.

We won't be covering the additional cost.

We have begun actively looking at zero emission last mile delivery but the technical solution is nowhere near and the options on the horizon are at least double the cost of the diesel options.
We currently pay £26k for fridge vans built to our spec, the closest available electric option costs £65k and has an estimated range of 50 miles. The range is estimated because nobody has actually built one yet.
Trouble is with electric, if the weather is cold then battery range is reduced, if the weather is hot then the fridge needs to draw more power and range is reduced.....
Fedex/ DHL/ UPS somehow seem to make it out OK with EV trucks....sheer size of scale of their ops I suppose.

It's been a very rare sight to see a non EV truck pulling up and delivering stuff to you while in London.
 
Fedex/ DHL/ UPS somehow seem to make it out OK with EV trucks....sheer size of scale of their ops I suppose.

It's been a very rare sight to see a non EV truck pulling up and delivering stuff to you while in London.
They aren't refrigerated.
Nor are they required to do deliveries up to 100 miles from their base.

Short distance multi drop works (and works quite well) but distance work does not.
 

anglo

LE
Indeed. Whilst I get the air quality argument, I even agree with some of that argument, it is a demand without a solution.
Initially the zero emission zone will run 07.00-19.00hrs. We are already informing our customers that they will have to make delivery possible at 05.00 or pay a delivery charge.

We won't be covering the additional cost.

We have begun actively looking at zero emission last mile delivery but the technical solution is nowhere near and the options on the horizon are at least double the cost of the diesel options.
We currently pay £26k for fridge vans built to our spec, the closest available electric option costs £65k and has an estimated range of 50 miles. The range is estimated because nobody has actually built one yet.
Trouble is with electric, if the weather is cold then battery range is reduced, if the weather is hot then the fridge needs to draw more power and range is reduced.....
I notice it's only a few streets in Oxford, St Austell in Cornwall has a large pedestrianized area,
I think no traffic between 0900 and 1800
They must stock all the shops at night, maybe Oxford should do that instead
 
I notice it's only a few streets in Oxford, St Austell in Cornwall has a large pedestrianized area,
I think no traffic between 0900 and 1800
They must stock all the shops at night, maybe Oxford should do that instead

Area expanding over time. Logically you are correct. Not everyone in Oxford has realised that their suppliers won't simply stump up the increased cost.

Our customer has a couple of sites within it. They've informed us that they expect us to deal appropriately.
Delivery times are within the hours that penalties will be in force for using non zero emission vehicles.

We've responded by telling them we expect them to pay for it :-D
 
They aren't refrigerated.
Nor are they required to do deliveries up to 100 miles from their base.

Short distance multi drop works (and works quite well) but distance work does not.
Slowly happening...


"StreetScooter, a DHL group electric vehicle developer, will manufacture the vehicle itself, while Yamato is responsible for a refrigerator-freezer cargo box to be attached to it."

And Nissan as well...

"* At the Tokyo Motor Show in October, Nissan Motor Co (7201.T), an early embracer of EV technology and maker of the Leaf, the world’s top-selling electric car, unveiled a concept model of its e-NV200 electric van with refrigeration capabilities, designed to transport chilled food to restaurants and homes."
 
Slowly happening...


"StreetScooter, a DHL group electric vehicle developer, will manufacture the vehicle itself, while Yamato is responsible for a refrigerator-freezer cargo box to be attached to it."

And Nissan as well...

"* At the Tokyo Motor Show in October, Nissan Motor Co (7201.T), an early embracer of EV technology and maker of the Leaf, the world’s top-selling electric car, unveiled a concept model of its e-NV200 electric van with refrigeration capabilities, designed to transport chilled food to restaurants and homes."

Yup the NV200 EV fridge has been around for a while.
Amongst others Harrods have a few

Fooking useless for anything other than very small volume very local deliveries.

Trouble is for Oxford is that it would require a distribution centre to feed the electric vehicle very close to the city itself.
For us its not worth the bother or expense. London will be but in reality we will end up having to create a very expensive and relatively inefficient network to deal with it.
The other problem is that even a modestly appropriate design is a year or two away, when we do go with it then it is likely that the vehicles will be a poor compromise with a short life
The consumer will foot the bill.

It isn't environmentally friendly.
Trunking will still be performed by diesel, we'll need more vehicles to accommodate the lack of range. The EV's themselves will have a shorter lifespan than their diesel equivalent.

All that said, we are actively looking at last mile electric for the major cities.
We'll get in on the ground floor but its going to cost and cost big.
Somebody has to foot the bill, in the end that will be the consumer.
 

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