The future of LE's in the Corps

Simple question, is there one?

The likelyhood of any LE's getting Reg C this year is looking very small indeed.

Duty rumour (this is ARRSE after all) is that the LE community will get hit very hard during T2 and T3 of the redundancies, with circa 50% of officers going. Despite helping the Corps DE liability for years it appears the proper officers want thier jobs back!
For those left behind the future looks equally bleak, with the chances of getting an SO2 job small, and the norm being to remain a Capt on commissioning until hitting a Manning Control Point when you will be shown the door.

T2 redundancies, where do I sign..........
Oh no here come another 5 million posts about LE v DE
Odd that the LEs should bear the brunt... you'd have thought (if nothing else) they make good value for money, given what has gone in, what has (and has yet) to come out and wht their payouts will be, for essentially doing fcuk all, when they retire.

Compared to most DE Capts.
They should do what I've done with my underpants drawer.
Have a good old clear out of all the old, tatty far too comfortable ones to make way for the crisp new modern ones that are better suited to this day and age, and will be able to provide a far better conducive contribution to the overall inner structure
Seems a little odd that one or the other would be targeted for special attention given the way the corps is constructed.

DEs for wider army/joint and command input, LEs for expertise in their respective fields. I can see that it might become harder to convert from LE to DE, or that LEs will find it more difficult to secure slots outside their area. This in itself could lead to re-balancing, hence fewer opportunities to commission as LE in the first place.
I think all" non-technical" LE's were under no illusions that they merely acting as convenient "filler" for the short-fall in the DE community, particularly over the past 15 years or so. In the future slimmed down Corps, the opportunity for an LE to be employed as a Trg/Ops Major, 2IC Regt, OC Field Sqn or even in an independent command will be few and far between. I agree with gbs, in that the RD LE community will inevitably return to their more restricted traditional G2/G4 fields and will have very few (if any) opportunities to convert to DE - not that that initiative has been an unqualified success!
My worry for the community is retention of quality, particularly if the limited opportunities to promote to Lt Col are reduced still further. Interesting times ahead - glad I am not part of it! :)
My fcku up! :) I meant G3/G4 - I accept I am probably out of date here, but in old money; the Trg and Log fields.
G7 is training now.

From the wiki, but close enough

  • A, for Air Force headquarters;
  • C, for combined headquarters (multiple nations) headquarters;
  • F, for certain forward or deployable headquarters;
  • G, for Army or Marines headquarters division level and above ("General" or "Ground");[SUP][8][/SUP]
  • J, for Joint (multiple services) headquarters;
  • N, for Navy headquarters; and
  • S, for staff roles within headquarters of organizations commanded by an executive officer with the rank of major or above (e.g., divisional brigades, regiments, groups, battalions, and squadrons; not used by all countries).
On some occasions the letter E can also be observed, though it is not an official term. In that case it is for element and it will be used to identify a small independent element, that is a part of a non-staff organization, i.e. an E3 is a operational element on a logistics site or a E4 is a logistics element on a forward medical support site.

There is of course CJ for Combined Joint and there are things like G3.4 doing the rounds (Logistics for Ops in that case).
I think Slipperman is on the right track. The impact on retention of both the current (and future) LE officers will be the hardest. Why work for an organisation that neither values your experience or what you bring to the party, how many DE officers actually DO the comms planning and execution, not many in my (far too many!) years experience. Still at least the big boys at the top should be ok, that's the main thing after all.............
It is inevitable that in a much smaller future Army, the number of LE commissions across the board will reduce and as PapaGolf states, it offers an opportunity to purge some of the deadwood (not just LE's mind, I'm talking about other ranks and DE officers as well!).
However, you only have to cast your mind back to options for change to see how that could pan out - there is no doubt that the Army lost a great deal of quality around that time, although it has to be said, the package was a lot more attractive, if memory serves.
This time around, the system MUST ensure that they filter out from the "bottom 3rd" across the board when stage 2 and 3 kicks in and also offer assurances to the real quality that they are still valued and have a secure and viable future career with good prospects. A very difficult balancing act to achieve, granted.
With respect to Zorro's finalpoint above:
I recall when HQLF re-orged and moved to Andover that the HQ was directed by MB to reduce the "star-count" before re-location. Following a number of high powered meetings over a number of months, the report was duly submitted back to London. Rather than identifying 1-star (or above) posts that could be removed, the authors recommended the establishment of a further 2 stars!
As a further indication, take a look at the last few rounds of senior officer postings published on the MS website and note how many are annotated "new requirement". We are all in it together alright.
Ref my original post, appears my G2 was lacking and that several LEs will be getting their Reg C so well done to them. Still think Roadster is right though with his final point! :)
Isn't there some aspect of playing with numbers here though? For example, SOinC(A) is shortly to be no more, and be "replaced" by a red-tab Col as head of the Corps. However, there's a new post at HQLF, which the current SOinC(A) is moving to, which is also a 1*. So they've added a one-star post at HQLF, and deleted one at Blandford. Seems like there's a net gain though of a full Col.

As for LEs, they're as fucked as anyone else.
At the end of the day, it is always a numbers game - it just so happens that some numbers fall better than others! Good Luck to everyone still serving in the Corps, I don't envy you the uncertainty of the next few years.
Oh, and well done to all those selected for Reg C, LE and DE!
guys, ive been out now for 8 years so I'm not fully au fait, can I assume from the posts here that LE's have been filling posts other than the normal QM, OC HQ, Trg Maj, fams offr? Obviously I'm aware that the LEs from the supervisory side of life also got the odd staff post
guys, ive been out now for 8 years so I'm not fully au fait, can I assume from the posts here that LE's have been filling posts other than the normal QM, OC HQ, Trg Maj, fams offr? Obviously I'm aware that the LEs from the supervisory side of life also got the odd staff post
Stevie: LE's of all persuasions (including RD) have filled (and continue to do so) a wide variety of "DE-type" posts over the last 10 years or so. Examples include Independent Signal Squadrons, Field Squadrons in Regular Regiments, 2IC Regular Regiments, exchange posts and so on. This was primarily due to the short fall of suitably qualified and experienced DE Majors, but was also because of the support of a number of senior DE Offficers of the Corps, namely a certain SOinC(A) and some of the recent Div Cols MCM Div, all of whom were very pro LE.
It would appear those days are ending, primarily because the DE community are able to meet their liabilities, albeit in a much smaller Corps.
A lot of this goes back to something called the MARILYN report in the late eighties. This was pre-post coldwar and the premise was that Manning And Recruiting In the Lean Years of the Nineties would be dire. The SOinC at the time, a 2 star I seem to remember, gave a briefing in JHQ for all R Sigs Offrs, WOs and SNCOs which I was just qualified to attend. He made it clear that LEs and WOs would have to begin to shoulder a lot of the burden left by the gap in DE officer recruiting for the forthcoming decade. This in turn would lead to higher rates of LE commissioning and opportunities for them at staff and command which had previously been unlikely. That generation gap has now passed and those who were commissioned in the early 00's are in position to take up the SO2 and Sqn Comd slots. Coupled with the contraction of the Corps, this means that things are just returning to their historical status quo.

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