The Fourth Armed Forces?

#1
Was pondering the ponderable in the back yard over a few becks... (maybe some jaeger and red bulls).

The Americans have an "extra" (discounting the USMC) Armed Force in the shape of the US Coast Guard. Whose mission is, broadly, to protect the Coast of the USA. THis includes promoting maritime safety (checking boats are seaworthy, etc.), maritime security (illegal immigrants and drugs), maritime mobility (keeping sea lanes open), protection of natural assets and finally defence.

Would it be worthwhile setting up a Royal Coast Guard consisting of elements of the RN who currently carry out (full time) tasks as above, the Coast Guard itself, the RNLI (in one way or another, don't want to tamper with it too much), elements of the Police (ie River police, MoD Police), the new border patrol mob, and a few others. RAF Rescue Helis could also be merged in...

Which led me to a whole new thought....

Merge in the Mountain and Cave rescue mobs.

As a para-military force, could this organisation effectively police our borders and national waters, and ensure safety and protect our natural resources?

Not all of the members would need to be armed, as per the USCG, although they are classed as an Armed Force, they are more like a Police Force with Rescue capabilities aswell.
 
#2
Sounds fine except the version of it that would happen with the Stalinists currently in power would be totally useless, grossly inefficient and constitutionally unlawful.

In fact it would probably have no maritime element but would have right of entry to all private dwellings, be principally concerned with monitoring private communications and movements, act to control Freedom of Association and wear a special uniform in honour of its founder the Prime Minister.

The Brown Shirts perhaps?
 

Auld-Yin

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#3
While the concept may be laudable, if it were to be put into practice by this government, and dare I say it, by the next regardless of which, then no extra money would be chanelled into it. Any monies would just be drained from existing services thereby negating much of what it is trying to do by weakening the basic armed forces set-up.
 
#4
chocolate_frog said:
Was pondering the ponderable in the back yard over a few becks... (maybe some jaeger and red bulls).

The Americans have an "extra" (discounting the USMC) Armed Force in the shape of the US Coast Guard. Whose mission is, broadly, to protect the Coast of the USA. THis includes promoting maritime safety (checking boats are seaworthy, etc.), maritime security (illegal immigrants and drugs), maritime mobility (keeping sea lanes open), protection of natural assets and finally defence.

Would it be worthwhile setting up a Royal Coast Guard consisting of elements of the RN who currently carry out (full time) tasks as above, the Coast Guard itself, the RNLI (in one way or another, don't want to tamper with it too much), elements of the Police (ie River police, MoD Police), the new border patrol mob, and a few others. RAF Rescue Helis could also be merged in...

Which led me to a whole new thought....

Merge in the Mountain and Cave rescue mobs.

As a para-military force, could this organisation effectively police our borders and national waters, and ensure safety and protect our natural resources?

Not all of the members would need to be armed, as per the USCG, although they are classed as an Armed Force, they are more like a Police Force with Rescue capabilities aswell.
The first thing that comes to mind is the budget. How do you decide what proportion of budget to take off each of the contributing services (forget the RLNI they far more valuable (and non political) as they are)? If you factor in the costs of starting such a force, from providing uniforms, personnel, equipment as well as vehicles, ships, boats, aircraft the cost would be enormous and far disproportionate ton the current spend from within individual services. The Navy wont give up a ship so a new one will have to be built, this will account for far more budget than just allocating one of the current ships to coastal protection. The same goes for the RAF who cant afford to lose Nimrod/AWACS, C130s or even fighters which now would be diverted from task to cover but in a new organisation would have to be specific to purpose, I assume the SeaKings are specific so they could just move over.
In theory it sounds a good idea but in practice it would lead to even greater Defence cuts and that is the last thing any of the Services can stand right now.
 

Sixty

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#5
Given that the only stupid question is the one you don't ask: What's wrong with what we've got now?
 
#6
Good idea, CF, but of course it will never happen. Just for a start, it would divert money away from far more important things, like dole money for the Jeremy Kyles or paying for MP's moats. :roll:

Also, there is no idea so good that the bunch of cnuts we have in charge can't fcuk it up; witness the unholy mess they have made of the Border Agency, SOCA etc.

Let's face it: if they can't even properly fund the three Armed Forces we have at the moment, what chance would a fourth one have? :evil:
 
#7
The Brownies already exist !
 
#8
The brown shirts arrive in August! I'm still wondering how a nightclub bouncer having pulled my vehicle over is going to know if my wheel bearings are serviceable or not.
 
#9
vampireuk said:
The brown shirts arrive in August! I'm still wondering how a nightclub bouncer having pulled my vehicle over is going to know if my wheel bearings are serviceable or not.
You will eventually admit to your brand new, less than 10 miles on the clock, vehicle being unroadworthy through wear.... they will ask you "nicely" to confess.
 
#10
RNLI is a national charitable organisation to avoid government interference.

Mountain Rescue and Cave Rescue teams are local charities. They rarely, if ever, get funding from public finances.
 
#11
Some sort of Arrse Einzatzgruppen to deal with Cyclops and his cohorts perhaps???
 
#14
I got to thinking about 2 organisations not 4.

A combat arm based on a purple element similar to the USMC truely joint and deployable. That would stop inter service rivalry and duplication so more punch for our Taxes and a fairer spread of taskings. Replace aircraft carriers and nuclear subs with assault platforms, helicopters, JSF etc

A home defence arm consisiting of something similar to the USCG with F4s MR2, small boats, SAR etc

Discuss

RC
 
A

ALVIN

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#15
With all these cutbacks?? - Besides, Gorden cant handle one propely, let alone four!! But a good thourght though, i must say.
 
#16
Air Training Corps.

The squadron I help instruct at regularly takes part in 'green' weekend exercises with help from a couple of serving soldiers. Most of the Cadets have better kit, webbing, boots and clothing and know a lot more about ambush techniques and setting up OPs than the Squaddies!
 
#17
RNLI and mountain rescue would go do one.
they don't want government funding because.
they'd get a shed load of government managers who'd want to waste time and money on unimportant things
hire a god bother who'd get upset on behalf of any lgbt members of said organization :twisted:
spend 5 years buying lifeboats that sink etc etc etc
worry that mountain rescue are not reaching kids in the inner cites :roll:
 
#18
Retd_crab said:
I got to thinking about 2 organisations not 4.

A combat arm based on a purple element similar to the USMC truely joint and deployable. That would stop inter service rivalry and duplication so more punch for our Taxes and a fairer spread of taskings. Replace aircraft carriers and nuclear subs with assault platforms, helicopters, JSF etc

A home defence arm consisiting of something similar to the USCG with F4s MR2, small boats, SAR etc

Discuss

RC
By "more punch for our Taxis" do you refer to private hire cabs or the more venerable Hackney carriages?
 
#19
They always told me the Civil Service was the Fourth Force :(
 
#20
Apart from RN, I currently have dealings with all these organisations. The last thing you want to do is arm them.

As individual organisations they are brilliant, caring, dedicated volunteers and public servants.

Get them all in a room and it's a different matter. Handguns would make for a very loud and short meeting.

Some of the RNLI are like the mafia, can't join unless you are family. The chances of them giving up 3 or 4 genertations of feudal power in some cases would be anathema.

The US arm their equivalent of the Dept of Agriculture. At Houston Airport this scary uniformed fat woman with a Glock asked me if I had any meat or dairy products in my luggage. I thought she was a hungry policewomen and was about to say you need to avoid them love, try some bean sprouts, when I noticed her Dept of Cows and Spuds badge. That fake coppery experience was a bit oppressive for it being the whole land of the free thing. I personally don't think these folk have a para-military role.

This might be a bit radical but I think the UK should go neutral like Sweden and only shoot at targets and nice middle class people who may annoy us.

coP
 

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