The Final Nail for Tiffys???

Hot off the presses is the following information;

Offr Wg:

26 LE commissions this year
LE offrs get an FCR(LE) at 3rd YOS
CRAB 1 – 80 runners for 34 places. Those with 2 OJARS as a Capt had a MUCH better chance of placing.

Sldr Wg:
22% of Corps is non-FE (3rd worst in the Army after Bands and Dentists!!)

Rec Mech prom to Sgt now on merit only (no 45o line)

Residual service rules are under review by AG – Dec 06 may see the rule scrapped.

SJAR comes in for WO in 07 with first reports used by MCM in 08.

PAAB – 3rd attempt now possible!

Versatile Engagement (known as VEng) from 08

12 yrs initial – then convert to:

24 yrs main – most will do this with some converting to:

To age 55 – very few will serve all the way to 55 – they go onto 6 year blocks (much like the current continuance)

Policy on converting from OEng to VEng to fol.

All promotion boards are now posted to Army net.

G1 General:

Spiked cards are now out – all soldiers should be carrying them. Used to deal with drink spiking in pubs/clubs.

NOTICAS cell has moved to Insworth. Old number still works but takes 10+ rings to go through. New number now out on Compassionate cards.

JPA will allow sldrs (and offrs!) to now contribute the days pay to REME funds live on the sys.
Regtl Col is concerned that a strapped sldr will opt out at the last min to pay for his food on PAYD.

Army Investigation Aftercare Support Cell (AIASC) will now manage relationship with deceased sldr’s families


New Support Vehicle – SV. Enters service in 07 but rec variant is not due until 09. SEME will have an example of some (inc rec) variants soon.


CSS BISA is dead in the long grass – do not hold you breath – the plan is to put JAMES 2 out on DII (Deployed) with a “bespoke” sys to link down from BGs.
Management of the Joint Deployed Inventory (MJDI replaces USAS and GLOBAL) will link from JAMES 2 on DII back to base.


YO trg: EngO viva will be at the end of the YO’s first tour. This will be 18 months (12 at present). During this time they will be with the unit for 12(ish) months. Considered a massive ask to pass so quick.

PANTHER – new comd and liaison veh. There is a huge trg bill due to remote gun trg.

DEME(A) COS is leading on a massive shake up of REME trg - catalyst is the DTR and preferred bidder dates.

Bottom line is a move away from Tiffy and long courses in general and towards more work based learning.

To be discussed at CO’s Cabal.

Cl 1 time bar looks like it will be removed, the course may also shrink and a financial incentive is planned at the end.

Fireside chat:

DEME(A) continued to robustly drive LEAN – after much “discussion” he did however admit that we are in danger of clouding the issue with other factors; RLC constraints and manpower pressures being the biggest two.

The drive towards IWFM is not helping as it shows LEAN as the solution to mass production of vehs ready for CHE and not in a more general light.
Support Vehilces are not at SEME.

Mil Trials have started at CSS TDU, the vehicles at SEME are there for Logistic Demonstration Maintainer Training.

If people want to keep up todate, then drop e a PM.

I am the Man at MAN
DEME(A) asked the WOs in SLB on T7 their views on Tiffy Trg - not many were in favour of the course as it stands - perhaps Nigel listens to his men?

Lost you a bit there, sorry. Can you clarify?

When you say, "not many were in favour of the course as it stands", was an alternative course or qualification suggested as a replacement?

It has been mooted that the tiffy course will take on a greater degree of military training and incorporate a foundation degree for example. I didn’t get the impression that the Corps was turning away from the tiffy system in it’s entirety.
Most of us that spoke to DEME(A) said that the time spent doing maths, science, materials etc. was 'wasted' as we didn't use the information passed in our daily lives - i.e fixing broke stuff, managing tradesmen and other resources.

My personal view was that we should spend less time on course. I think the ACFC phases were the most useful, followed by the trade phases. Least useful in my opinion was the kremlin bit.

Most of us felt the course was too long and a bit of a waste of time. The alternatives were discussed, but I can't say there was a consensus on the way forward.

Maybe someone else who was there can offer thier views?
With the emphasis leaning towards Ieng for Tiffs/WO and a general move in an acedemic direction for the corp itself, then the year in the Kremlin isnt too bad.
IMO I think it should be longer not shorter, perhaps with a management qual in there somewhere.

scuse spilleng, the bar is open.
That's something I was going to mention, but edited out. I am IEng, and it helped not a jot to get things fixed.
It's nice to have and will be useful when you leave, but does it actually help the Corps to have IEng (other than to assist REME Officers get CEng)?

My view is that Tiffs need to be able to solve practical problems when the Cpls and Sgts have tried, I am not convinced that this is what we train Tiffs to do currently.

I do believe most Tiffies are doing a good job, but I don't think we train them that way - maybe we've just been lucky so far...
From the roadshow i attended very recently, they are talking about a 17 week tiffy course with of course the current qualifications obtained on the course being scrapped.

They are looking into courses where the emphasis is on management and not on trade knowledge and cross pollination will be empasised.. ie if your a VM attending a tiffy course, you will carry out alot more training on other trades like tech and weapons etc the thought behind it being that you have your class ones to rely on for trade expertise (rightly or wrongly)

Also from the roadshow it was announced that 2 WO2's have commisioned (one flyer and one at last look) and the rest are to be WO1's
I would warn against taking too parochial a view in this debate.

I agree that little use is made of the education and qualifications gained during Artificer training at a first line post. However, having additionally held posts at ATDU and at DLO I have found them invaluable. An ability to discuss engineering problems and solutions at design engineer level is absolutely essential.
Difficult one, this. All the quals in the world do not make a good Tiff... it's personality driven... either you can Tiff or you can't. The biggest kn0b around can still be a great Tiff (although an unpopular one) provided his lads know where they stand and what they'll be doing in six months time.

The course must be designed around giving Tiff students some tools and guidelines that they can adapt and tailor best to suit their needs (and let's face it, Tiff of a Ftr Sect is different from Tiffy Packs Pl) but the basic fundamentals are the same.
I agree with OM13(mmmm cheeerry), when considered at first line, the academical aspect of Artificer Trg does not jump to the fore when confronted with 1st line problems. Although I have never been to the darks side (DLO, IPT and the rest), talking to my brother Tiffies it does actually kick in and in the least, it prevents you looking like a mong when it gets "uber" technical in front of the Strawberry mivvies. IMHO the Kremlin made me realise that knowledge isn't intelligence, but it helps when "Professor Hienz Wolf" kicks off at a tangent and its your job to keep up.

As for the 2 x WO2s Commissioning , I was under the impression that only WO1s will only be able to apply from next year anyway. Just awaiting the DIN to come out.
OM13 said:
I agree that little use is made of the education and qualifications gained during Artificer training at a first line post. However, having additionally held posts at ATDU and at DLO I have found them invaluable. An ability to discuss engineering problems and solutions at design engineer level is absolutely essential.
Have to totally agree on this point.

As a Corps we supply a considerable number of Artificers and Officers to posts at ATDU, DLO and DPA. Without the technical knowledge gained during the Artificer course it would be virtually impossible for the Corps to supply suitably qualified personnel to advise on the design and support of future equipments. We have to be able to bring the "military - real world view" to the contractors, but that includes having the Engineering Competence to argue your case! If we solely train our future Artificers as "jack of all trade" managers, with no higher level Engineering Qualification, then that will be the thin edge of the wedge for our Corps, as you will just see more equipments with a 1st to 4th repair policy!
I'm not convinced that academics to the current level is the way ahead. The primary function of Tiffies is to command fitter sections / repair sections, to do this, academics plays a very small part.

fair enough, blokes at DLO may need some extra 'science bits' but the blokes from my course who went to DLO were not the always the ones who were good in the kremlin.

DEME(A) also mentioned this and said perhaps a 'DLO course' for blokes posted there would be more useful. Maybe even doing it on the WO course would be better?

I'm still finding my feet here in Aus, but I know they do the Tiffy thing differently. Maybe once I see the method here I can offer an alternate view. I do know that the 'Tiffy part' of the WO promotion courses here is only 3 months.

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