The Falklands , with the benefit of hindsight

goodoldboy

MIA
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Exactly what gucci kit would that be?
Kit that was suitable for some big aircraft.

When it was all over bar the shouting, some of the kit that was about to be returned to you was dropped from height onto a concrete surface and damaged. A genial chap chalked 'Oops!' on said kit before it was crated-up. Hope you're not still after a formal apology?
 
Allowing for the drift , but getting back to the Falklands ...
I go to Argentina quite a lot , and am always asked for " genuine " '82 kit by their collectors ( who pay way over the odds for it ) .
The windproofs , para smocks , berets , etc that I supply don't often have an early 80's date on them , and I get round this by telling them that everyone was de kitted on return and all such items burned ,. so genuine kit is impossible to come by ( which certainly happened to me on Medman & Cyprus exercises and I believe , to others on actual deployments )
Were people allowed to keep windproofs and other kit , or was it taken back on return ? I hate lying ....
 
Allowing for the drift , but getting back to the Falklands ...
I go to Argentina quite a lot , and am always asked for " genuine " '82 kit by their collectors ( who pay way over the odds for it ) .
The windproofs , para smocks , berets , etc that I supply don't often have an early 80's date on them , and I get round this by telling them that everyone was de kitted on return and all such items burned ,. so genuine kit is impossible to come by ( which certainly happened to me on Medman & Cyprus exercises and I believe , to others on actual deployments )
Were people allowed to keep windproofs and other kit , or was it taken back on return ? I hate lying ....

A few Ballester Molina .45's have ended up in the hands of Section 7 collectors in the UK.

Although there are a lot more at the bottom of Southampton Water
 
A few Ballester Molina .45's have ended up in the hands of Section 7 collectors in the UK.

Although there are a lot more at the bottom of Southampton Water
I remember being given a FAL to go with 60 pattern uniform as " orange forces "at Warminster in the early 90's ...
I can't remember if they were deactivated ? Must have been ...
 
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I think the truth is they didn't think we would come down and fight them for it. The Americans were giving them intelligence as well as some of the gucci kit we subsequently nicked off them!
Do you have any evidence that the US were providing Argentina intelligence? I think this has long been debunked as an urban myth. Ditto ongoing equipment support.
 
Do you have any evidence that the US were providing Argentina intelligence? I think this has long been debunked as an urban myth. Ditto ongoing equipment support.
Someone was alerting them every time a Black Buck mission took off .
That's according a retired member of the Argentine Air Force .
That's not to say it was an American source .
Probably the BBC :rolleyes:
 
I remember being given a FAL to go with 60 pattern uniform as " orange forces "at Warminster in the early 90's ...
I can't remember if they were deactivated ? Must have been ...


One of their captured Wokkas lives on as the back end of one of ours after a cut 'n' shut job after a hard landing in Afghanistan.
IIRC, much of the small arms went to the bottom with the Sir Galahad when she sunk as a war grave afterwards
 
D

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Someone was alerting them every time a Black Buck mission took off .
That's according a retired member of the Argentine Air Force .
That's not to say it was an American source .
Probably the BBC :rolleyes:
There were Soviet AGIs throughout the area; a very real concern of both Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan was Russian support for Argentina.
 
Allowing for the drift , but getting back to the Falklands ...
I go to Argentina quite a lot , and am always asked for " genuine " '82 kit by their collectors ( who pay way over the odds for it ) .
The windproofs , para smocks , berets , etc that I supply don't often have an early 80's date on them , and I get round this by telling them that everyone was de kitted on return and all such items burned ,. so genuine kit is impossible to come by ( which certainly happened to me on Medman & Cyprus exercises and I believe , to others on actual deployments )
Were people allowed to keep windproofs and other kit , or was it taken back on return ? I hate lying ....

In 5 Bde HQ and the sigs sqn we were allowed to keep the arctic underwear (both cellular and long john types), socks, gloves/mittens and other similar items. Everything was handed back in to the QM.

I managed to keep my spiffy arctic overparka by telling the QM that someone pinched it off the washing line outside my MQ on the patch. I still wear it over a Barbour quilted body warmer in very inclement cold weather when walking to and from work - quilted hood keeps my head nice and warm.



I used the socks for years afterwards, they only gave up the ghost a few years ago. :)
 
If memory serves correctly, there is a photo of said Para on the motorbike. Again, IIRC, it’s captioned ‘2Para RSM (Simpson?) with his ‘acquired’ motorbike’.
It seems you might have been in exalted company. :)
He didn't object to being called "mate" then... :D

Rank badges didn't show up too well under a thick layer of ground in peat dirt... DPM may well have stood for Definately Peaty Mud...
 
The missing elements were the helicopters that went down with Atlantic Conveyor.

3 x Chinook, 6 x Wessex, 1 x Lynx

The original plan was to use the helos to move Battalions and Commandos at a time to seize Teal, Douglas and Mount Kent, not walk them there.

Top tip:

Don't store hundreds of tonnes of ammunition loose in a Merchant ship carrying your vital helicopters - you can't fight the fire.
Top tip - make the most of what you have and get all of it there quickly, then you can absorb losses.

Were you involved at any stage?

Edited to add: WTF do you mean by ‘loose’ ammunition storage?
 
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Unless I've skipped a bit of the thread why didn't we take Stalwarts. Load em up at Martchwood and Ras them along the way to bobup at San Carlos. Seriously they would have been pretty useful load carriers to and from ships plus low ground pressure on the boggy bits and the benefit of zero transmission windup. Also they would look like the future to Hulio from Buenos Aries.
 
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No, it wasn't.

More recently, in 1980, as a culmination of a decade of talks with Argentina, Britain again consulted the wishes of the Islanders on the basis upon which future co-operation with Argentina could be negotiated. The Islanders rejected the idea of surrendering sovereignty to Argentina in exchange for a lease-back of the administration of the Islands. However, they were prepared to agree to consultations continuing with Argentina on the basis of an agreement to freeze the dispute over sovereignty for a specified time. This proposal was put to Argentina early in 1981, but it was rejected by that State.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/AUYrBkIntLaw/1980/2.pdf

We may have been happy to let them go but the wishes of the islanders were the deciding factor.
IIRC the Pope was involved and mediated in favor of the Islanders Decision, however HMG were a bit wishey washey at the time (no change there then) and sent out the sort of signals a rapist might take as a yes.
 
Top tip - make the most of what you have and get all of it there quickly, then you can absorb losses.

Were you involved at any stage?

Edited to add: WTF do you mean by ‘loose’ ammunition storage?

Yes.

They didn’t have magazine stowage or contained holds on Atlantic Conveyor, she was a CONRO - open vehicle decks with ammunition and flammable stores in boxes and transit cases, once the ammunition started cooking off, they had no chance of containing it. like All merchant ships, fire on the vehicle deck is 30 minutes to contain it or you’ve lost, then off and let it burn. You don’t have the people or gear to fight a decent vehicle fire, let alone ammunition. Atlantic Conveyor was abandoned after 25 minutes.

They took a chance bringing in so soon, got bit, shit happens.
Hindsight as they say is a wonderful thing, they should have flown off all the helos and transhipped the ammunition first, but they didn't.
 
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[
Unless I've skipped a bit of the thread why didn't we take Stalwarts. Load em up at Martchwood and Ras them along the way to bobup at San Carlos. Seriously they would have been pretty useful load carriers to and from ships plus low ground pressure on the boggy bits and the benefit of zero transmission windup. Also they would look like the future to Hulio from Buenos Aries.
They had all been borrowed by squaddies going home on leave across the channel.
 
Yes.

They didn’t have magazine stowage or contained holds on Atlantic Conveyor, she was a CONRO - open vehicle decks with ammunition and flammable stores in boxes and transit cases, once the ammunition started cooking off, they had no chance of containing it. like All merchant ships, fire on the vehicle deck is 30 minutes to contain it or you’ve lost, then off and let it burn. You don’t have the people or gear to fight a decent vehicle fire, let alone ammunition. Atlantic Conveyor was abandoned after 25 minutes.

They took a chance bringing in so soon, got bit, shit happens.
Hindsight as they say is a wonderful thing, they should have flown off all the helos and transhipped the ammunition first, but they didn't.
Engaging reverse now eh?

Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing - we could of course have waited until we had a perfect task force.

Thank God we didn’t - second guessing everything over 35 years later is a twat’s game.
 
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