The Falklands , with the benefit of hindsight

#1
I have read elsewhere that the reason there was only one troop of CVRT deployed was that it was thought the ground wasn't capable of supporting any tanks , yet of course they were ideal and made a significant contribution .
With the benefit of hindsight , would a mechanized brigade comprising two cavalry recce regiments , an RA Abbott regiment and two battalions of infantry in 432's or Spartans , supported by two squadrons of Lynx attack helicopter squadrons have rolled the Argentines up in a matter of a week or ten days ?
Or was all of the above impossible because
1 ) we didn't have the ships capable of landing a fully mechanized brigade or
2 ) they couldn't have been spared from the BAOR ORBAT or
3 ) was it a case of " It's only a South American army , let the Paras and Marines deal with it " ?
 
#2
I have read elsewhere that the reason there was only one troop of CVRT deployed was that it was thought the ground wasn't capable of supporting any tanks , yet of course they were ideal and made a significant contribution .
With the benefit of hindsight , would a mechanized brigade comprising two cavalry recce regiments , an RA Abbott regiment and two battalions of infantry in 432's or Spartans , supported by two squadrons of Lynx attack helicopter squadrons have rolled the Argentines up in a matter of a week or ten days ?
Or was all of the above impossible because
1 ) we didn't have the ships capable of landing a fully mechanized brigade or
2 ) they couldn't have been spared from the BAOR ORBAT or
3 ) was it a case of " It's only a South American army , let the Paras and Marines deal with it " ?
I off the top of my head would say not so much shipping but landing ashore, what your describing could of been accommodated in a RORO ferry or 2 however to get that sort of stuff ashore takes a fairly serious piece of dock. And the only port was Stanley.

As for BAOR commitments, at the time would the US of not filled the gap?
 
#3
And when half the mechanised brigade is sent to the bottom like Atlantic Conveyor?
 
#4
I have read elsewhere that the reason there was only one troop of CVRT deployed was that it was thought the ground wasn't capable of supporting any tanks , yet of course they were ideal and made a significant contribution .
With the benefit of hindsight , would a mechanized brigade comprising two cavalry recce regiments , an RA Abbott regiment and two battalions of infantry in 432's or Spartans , supported by two squadrons of Lynx attack helicopter squadrons have rolled the Argentines up in a matter of a week or ten days ?
Or was all of the above impossible because
1 ) we didn't have the ships capable of landing a fully mechanized brigade or
2 ) they couldn't have been spared from the BAOR ORBAT or
3 ) was it a case of " It's only a South American army , let the Paras and Marines deal with it " ?
I would hazard a guess that any more than the deployed troop would have made the soft tracks/ground impassable should any number of tracked vehicles attempted to use them. Perhaps another troop of CVRT would have been useful (and more BV's), but I think there is no chance any number of tracked equipment would have made things better especially when it came to allowing the easy movement of marching troops.
Anyone who has ever tried to walk around a German tank training area can attest to just what a pain it is.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
Wasnt the reason that the CVRT's were successful was that they had a very low ground pressure? MBT's would sink into the peat.
 
#6
Surely the Falklands is mostly peat - so the 432s and Abbots would have sunk into the ground and become stationary? The CVRTs were not very heavy in comparison.

They would have had to have been shipped there, as would all the supplies, ammunition, support equipment, so it would still have depended on the RN winning the fight against the Argentine Navy (including their aircraft) and Argentine Air Force?

Could we have found extra merchant ships to take up from trade?
 
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#7
I off the top of my head would say not so much shipping but landing ashore, what your describing could of been accommodated in a RORO ferry or 2 however to get that sort of stuff ashore takes a fairly serious piece of dock. And the only port was Stanley.

As for BAOR commitments, at the time would the US of not filled the gap?
But we managed to get the CVRTs onto the beach. Couldn't be much more of a stretch in capability to get other similar sized AFV's ashore - yes i know the SPGs are a bit bigger than a CVRT.


And when half the mechanised brigade is sent to the bottom like Atlantic Conveyor?
A RoRo with a large armour component would, i suspect, be with the carrier task force until the last moments as the assault fleet went into the Sound. As I recall wasn't Conveyor coming into the area having left the CTF & some time after the landings at San Carlos?
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
#8
they couldn't have been spared from the BAOR ORBAT
As 3 Armd Div Recce Regt and still very close to the command element, I can say with certainty that there was never any danger of us getting invited, however keen we might have been (and torn because I'd literally just found out I was going to be a father).

Battlegroups continued to go to BATUS and needed their attached Close Recce troop. Preparation for Doomsday couldn't stop either. Our Close Recce squadron was never in camp.

Household Cavalry still had Heathrow to protect.

Didn't stop me, when annoyed by C Sqn, cos I was having a sh¡t day, from informing a mucker who said the wrong thing at the wrong time, that he and his squadron could unpack their Australia for 6 weeks exchange kit and prepare to go somewhere also south, but halfway round the world.

I heard a few hours later that OC C Sqn was on the phone instantly to the CO for confirmation.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
#10
The CVRTs were not very heavy in comparison.
Funnily enough, replacing our Saracen ACVs with Sultan wasn't perfect.

We recced suitable Command Troop sites before exercises. Usually barns. German farmer's first question, "Panzer? Kein Panzer." With Saracen, easy peasy. Nein, Sechsrad Befehlswagen. Bang, we're in.

With Sultan, hmm. I quickly learned the phrase Niedrige Bodendrück. Low ground pressure. And explain it was a recce vehicle detivative. We invariably got our way (nicely of course).
 
#11
A mechanised brigade? Pfft.

All that was needed was a few old tanks.

Google The Fireflies of Port Stanley.

;)
 
#12
But we managed to get the CVRTs onto the beach. Couldn't be much more of a stretch in capability to get other similar sized AFV's ashore - yes i know the SPGs are a bit bigger than a CVRT.




A RoRo with a large armour component would, i suspect, be with the carrier task force until the last moments as the assault fleet went into the Sound. As I recall wasn't Conveyor coming into the area having left the CTF & some time after the landings at San Carlos?
We were stretched to the breaking point logistics wise just supporting what we had down there. We couldn't have supported anything heavier. Where where the Extra LCU's and Mexefloats coming from to put this extra kit on the ground? How was the fuel and ammo getting forward to supply it?
 
#13
I have read elsewhere that the reason there was only one troop of CVRT deployed was that it was thought the ground wasn't capable of supporting any tanks , yet of course they were ideal and made a significant contribution .
With the benefit of hindsight , would a mechanized brigade comprising two cavalry recce regiments , an RA Abbott regiment and two battalions of infantry in 432's or Spartans , supported by two squadrons of Lynx attack helicopter squadrons have rolled the Argentines up in a matter of a week or ten days ?
Or was all of the above impossible because
1 ) we didn't have the ships capable of landing a fully mechanized brigade or
2 ) they couldn't have been spared from the BAOR ORBAT or
3 ) was it a case of " It's only a South American army , let the Paras and Marines deal with it " ?
The Americans war gamed the Falklands and needed two carrier task groups and an armoured division.

CVRT was useful but not ground breaking. There main function could’ve been carried out with more land rovers.

Terrain was a massive problem and armour would’ve struggled. Especially 432s and chieftain.

The Falklands has been described as the battle of the hills. You can’t take armour up steep, rock infested hills.

The biggest issue however was the timescale and the logistics.

Troops needed to be landed by a certain date before the weather closed in.

There wasn’t enough ships.

There wasn’t a port to land armour .

We were fighting 8000
Miles from home. Where do you get your POL from?

Great idea in theory, but a non starter in practice.
 
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#16
But we managed to get the CVRTs onto the beach. Couldn't be much more of a stretch in capability to get other similar sized AFV's ashore - yes i know the SPGs are a bit bigger than a CVRT.




A RoRo with a large armour component would, i suspect, be with the carrier task force until the last moments as the assault fleet went into the Sound. As I recall wasn't Conveyor coming into the area having left the CTF & some time after the landings at San Carlos?
We managed to get some CVRT on the beach. But they’re quite dinky little things.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
#18
There main function could’ve been carried out with more land rovers.
I thought I'd read (I wasn't there. I may be wrong. I frequently am) that Scorpion was used in its designated role, CVR(T) FS for Fire Support and could provide instant artillery from right behind the troops.

I've heard people say that Scorpion would have been better than Scimitar in the sandpits for the same reason. 76mm of HE would do a lot of damage to a compound.
 

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