The Falklands: Harriers! Penguins! Bellicosity!

#1
Our American "allies" standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Britain once again:

US wanted to warn Argentina about South Georgia - Telegraph

And who is behind this? Cock-sucker Al Haig, actually best known for High Crimes and Misdemeanous during the Nixon Presidency.

I just checked, he's dead, so I can't libel him.

Just to add - you have to admire Thatcher's balls.
 
#2
Our American "allies" standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Britain once again:

US wanted to warn Argentina about South Georgia - Telegraph

And who is behind this? Cock-sucker Al Haig, actually best known for High Crimes and Misdemeanous during the Nixon Presidency.

I just checked, he's dead, so I can't libel him.

Just to add - you have to admire Thatcher's balls.
A bit of selective quotation from the article. You missed:

"While US defense secretary Caspar Weinberger proved a staunch ally of Britain from the outbreak of war on April 2 1982, authorising secret shipments of weapons vital to the task force.....".

How many British Defence Ministers do you know of who would authorised such vital, material assistance by flying in the face of the Foreign Office policy? They also provided communications channels, initial air traffic control facilities on Ascension Island and many other "behind the scenes" support.

I was on exhange with the US Army in the immediate aftermath of the war and it was obvious that the part played by US public opinion in neutralising the machinations of Haig could not be underestimated. Senators received copious correspondence from their electorates supporting the UK's stance against Argy bullying, with special support for Maggie Thatcher. It was made clear to the State Department where the support of the public lay and "The Gipper", with his acute sense of political awareness, reigned in Haig.
 
#3
What do you mean, "once again"? It was 30 years ago FFS.
I'm a bitter bastard at heart.

They also provided communications channels, initial air traffic control facilities on Ascension Island and many other "behind the scenes" support.
Have you never heard of the Zircon Project?

Might I point out Ascension is our island, something else the yanks forgot at the time.
 
#4
Yanks must have heard of it on the BBC. It was stating the obvious anyway wasn't it?
 
#5
The problem was not Al Haig who was pro-British, it was Jeanne Kirkpatrick, Reagan's Ambassador to the UN. Kirkpatrick never met a right wing dictator she didn't like and she consistently worked to undercut Haig's efforts at State.
 
#7
Naive question I suppose, but what became of her?
After the UN she went back to teaching at Georgetown University and also worked for a DC foreign policy think tank (forget which one) Horrible woman, It was an odd situation with Haig being undercut by an ambassador who had Reagan's ear. Part of why Haig resigned after a fairly brief period as Secretary.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#8
Before we try and blame it all on the US we should remember that the Falklands was a massive failure of int and political judgement.

I did a course in 1981. During it the course OC discussed the FI. A Capt in the RCT his parting words were 'you should know about the Falklands, that Gentlemen will be your next war'.

He been a Marine there before breaking his back. It always struck me that if an RCT Capt could make an accurate G2 assessment in Dec 1981 then the powers that be were deey negligent.


Posted from the ARRSE Mobile app (iOS or Android)
 
#9
In 1981 or 80 I read a letter in NME or Sounds (a music paper anyway) from a young Falkland Islander who feared invasion from Argentina and felt the concerns of the islanders were being ignored.
 
#10
I think you mean it is only 30 years ago FFS so there is no chance of knowing the full truth yet. I do not admire Maggie's balls. I stand amazed at her luck. It is slowly emerging that Thatcher and Nott were briefed on the poor state of Royal Navy weaponry and sonar and submarine refits. As a result they had to be persuaded to risk raising a task force and going to war by an Admiral, who allegedly advocated Pearl Harbour style cheating. The then recently redundant Portsmouth RN Dockyard workers answered the call to return to work. You have to admire those patriotic trades unionists eh ? Anyone recall Nott stamping out of a TV interview after an Admiral's judgement was cited as superior to his ? Bet he decided to bite his tongue ............
 
F

fozzy

Guest
#11
In 1981 or 80 I read a letter in NME or Sounds (a music paper anyway) from a young Falkland Islander who feared invasion from Argentina and felt the concerns of the islanders were being ignored.
Interesting! Also showing my age, but I remember on "Pebble Mill at One" (Christ, that dates me), around the same time (before the war of 82) a small series of films by one of their reporters from the Endurance on one of its then last planned patrols. Showed film of the Falklands and explained that that the Argies were rattling sabres.
 
#12
No matter the support or otherwise offered by the USA (and I'm aware of the back channel stuff that went on), its clear that Thatcher stood up to the Americans and the French in a way that Phony Tony was utterly unable to. Thatch and Ronnie were ideological bedfellows, whereas Blair and Bush were almost diametrically opposed yet she knew how to say no.
 
#14
I think you mean it is only 30 years ago FFS so there is no chance of knowing the full truth yet. I do not admire Maggie's balls. I stand amazed at her luck. It is slowly emerging that Thatcher and Nott were briefed on the poor state of Royal Navy weaponry and sonar and submarine refits. As a result they had to be persuaded to risk raising a task force and going to war by an Admiral, who allegedly advocated Pearl Harbour style cheating. The then recently redundant Portsmouth RN Dockyard workers answered the call to return to work. You have to admire those patriotic trades unionists eh ? Anyone recall Nott stamping out of a TV interview after an Admiral's judgement was cited as superior to his ? Bet he decided to bite his tongue ............
You are not half talking some bollocks today!

Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using ARRSE mobile app
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#15
No matter the support or otherwise offered by the USA (and I'm aware of the back channel stuff that went on), its clear that Thatcher stood up to the Americans and the French in a way that Phony Tony was utterly unable to. Thatch and Ronnie were ideological bedfellows, whereas Blair and Bush were almost diametrically opposed yet she knew how to say no.
Have you considered that Phony Tony might have set aside his ideological differences with Bush because he agreed with him on other issues.

Although you, and many others may have disagreed with Blair, it is possible that he followed the course of action he did because he believed in it. That despite it being the difficult decision he stuck with it because he thought it was right?


Posted from the ARRSE Mobile app (iOS or Android)
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
The question of whetehr the Govt ought to have seen this coming is partly answered in Captain Nick Barker's book where his warnings were directly contradicted by HM Ambassador in BA: Beyond Endurance: An Epic of Whitehall and the South Atlantic Conflict: Amazon.co.uk: Nick Barker: Books

and in Lt Col Ewen Southby-Tailyour's Amazon.co.uk: Customer Reviews: Reasons in Writing: A Commando's View of the Falklands War where he talks about his earlier tour as OC the miniscule RM garrison there.

I think the problem was thatb relatively junior people did articulate the risks but the senior suits would not have it.

It was Admiral Leach, then 1SL, who in a massive gamble bet the Navy (and his career) on recovering the FI when the FCO had been scheming for years to try and get rid of the islands. If he had not said what he did, Maggie would have had no support.

It should be remembered that Reagan did sometimes need stiffening. It was Maggie's hand up the back of his jacket that emboldened him to fry the Soviet Union in technology that they could not afford, bringing the whole evil empire crashing down. For that service to humanity Maggie has a palce among the immortals.

Why Nott got a knighthood I have no idea. If Galtieri had not felt pushed by internal politics into jumping the gun not only would the weather have scuppered any hope of recovery (and goodness knows it was bad enough, with sea conditions as bad as on the Bismarck chase and all that implies for the absolutely vital Sea Harrier ops) but we should not have had enough ships anyway.
 
#17
Have you considered that Phony Tony might have set aside his ideological differences with Bush because he agreed with him on other issues.

Although you, and many others may have disagreed with Blair, it is possible that he followed the course of action he did because he believed in it. That despite it being the difficult decision he stuck with it because he thought it was right?


Posted from the ARRSE Mobile app (iOS or Android)
That is possible, and is a generous view of his motives, which I rather tend towards. Of course, he may just have had his head so far up Bush's backside that he couldn't see where he was going.....
 
#18
Interesting! Also showing my age, but I remember on "Pebble Mill at One" (Christ, that dates me), around the same time (before the war of 82) a small series of films by one of their reporters from the Endurance on one of its then last planned patrols. Showed film of the Falklands and explained that that the Argies were rattling sabres.
We must be a similar age - I remember that Pebble Mill show well and the particular one on the Falklands prior to the war. I think the Falklands film was presented by Donnie Mcleod and it made a very big deal about without the Endurance the islands were very exposed. My Dad was very impressed that I was able to talk with confidence (aged 10) in April '82 about the Falkands - who said that TV is bad for kids!
 
#19
Have you considered that Phony Tony might have set aside his ideological differences with Bush because he agreed with him on other issues.

Although you, and many others may have disagreed with Blair, it is possible that he followed the course of action he did because he believed in it. That despite it being the difficult decision he stuck with it because he thought it was right?


Posted from the ARRSE Mobile app (iOS or Android)
I did and I discounted it as I consider Blair to be a power crazy megalomaniac, who was surrounded by acolytes who massaged clear intelligence to the contrary that the precept for invasion was there.

And don't assume that I don't know what I'm talking about.
 
#20
Naive question I suppose, but what became of her?
She's dead, thank God. Sour-faced crone that started out as a Democrat then became a Republican in 1985.
 

Similar threads

New Posts

Top