The european dream ?

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by semper, Sep 25, 2005.

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  1. while in Florida i spotted a book entitled the European dream , an interesting read, it seems that USA has now reached the end of the road re the American dream and started to lose faith in it, as many are underpaid , overworked, with little emplyment rights and many live in fear of a Major illness as it would make them bankrupt.
    50 million American don't have medical insurance.

    mimimum wage in Florida is $6.13 an hour BUT in TIPPED employment (Bar work, hotel , Catering etc) you only get $3.30 an hour so if make good tips great if not then its really shite, i have spoken to many Floridians and New Yorkers many do mention the insecurity they live under.

    Hurricane Katrina has recently exposed the downside of America in a big way especially the poverty that prevails amongst the low income White and Blacks, this is a potential powderkeg situation boiling under the nose of the American rich who don't want to see the problem.

    while the EU including the UK is starting to become a powerful economic zone with secure welfare. Healthcare system, good employment protection and good productivity , UK in particular shine in this respect, the EU is a big trading block and if Turkey joins up , there is a large young workforce ready to work in the service industry.

    im sure neither is 100% perfect but it does makes an interesting read and discussion point , do you guys think America is stuffed and Europe is on the rise ?

    The European Dream by Jeremy Rifkin (American)

    http://www.utne.com/pub/2004_125/promo/11349-1.html

    http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2004/08/20040818_b_main.asp

    American minmum wage http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm

    this is not a personal attack on the American nation, i actually like visiting the country, sampling the lifestyle , driving the cars, big meals, cheap petrol etc, i liked St Augustine (the Oldest town 1565) in Florida, Boston and New York but i don't feel compelled to take out US citizenship,
    im opening the floor for discussion on the merits of this idea of the European dream.
     
  2. Note 'Dream'. I have voted Yes. The dream is valid, but anybody who thinks it will ever happen is seriously deluding themselves.
     
  3. yes "Dream" is a misnomer , it was teh Authors own title
    the concept would have better said as "potential"

    as in The American potential and the European Potential

    i have been to America 3 times and to be honest, if you are rich it is a great country. Tax Breaks, excellent medical service, lifestyle and cars etc

    but if you are poor , then it is a hard and precarious life, low employment protection, you must provide your own medical insurance if your company doesn't have one, even then most will only pay 80% of your cost,
    one girl has actually said to me she find it "quite scary" but she has no choice but to make the best of it.

    this article may also explain a bit of it .
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4210674.stm

    the Republican attitude is best reflected in this
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4230372.stm
     
  4. The European Dream? The American author must know very little about the European Union. Spiralling unemployment e.g. Germany with 5 million unemployed. Declining birthrates across the Continent, which will see an increased strain on social welfare systems due to an aged population - another consequence of this will be the rise in the Muslim population of Europe (this is already happening in Belgium and the Netherlands). Unsustainable social welfare systems which encourage people not to work and are a drain on the economic well-being of a number of European states - e.g. Germany, Sweden. Traditionally weak economies such as Italy, Portugal, Greece, which have caused the euro to loose some 20% of its value since its inception. An unwillingness across the EU to spend anything on defence, without which it is going to be rather difficult to have a common foreign and security policy. The domination of the EU by an unaccountable and largely invisible trans-national bureaucracy which despises the idea of national sovereignty and individual freedom. The widespread collapse since 1945 of traditional societal values across much of what is now the EU - family, faith, civic and national pride and responsibility, patriotism (not nationalism), and basic ethical and moral values; this more than anything else sets the EU apart from the United States.

    In short, the Unites States has a long way to fall before it has anything to fear from 'Europe'.
     
  5. The biggest risk to both the European and American dream surely come from China these days. How long will it be till China is the most powerful economic country in the world?
     
  6. In the next 10 to 15 yrs someone said. And if we keep shoving our money down the swanny they call Iraq, it might even be inside 5. Look at the other drains on our economy? A nation of shirking soap dodging thievin pikey criminal b*stards.
    It costs us thousands every year to keep some of this sh*t alive as well.
     
  7. Superbly summed up Biscuits. In answer to Silvester's question, lunch time on Friday I reckon.
     
  8. The American Dream exists only in the minds of the richest 2% of the population. The remainder live close to the breadline. The European Dream exists only in the minds of the Germans and French. History repeats. I have in my hand a piece of paper. Next stop Poland.
     
  9. Wales.................... :D
     
  10. I'm guessing the author is a Democrat?

    Being rich ANYWHERE is great.

    Being poor ANYWHERE sucks.