The End of the NHS?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Andyroo, Apr 4, 2006.

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  1. This article on BBC news seems to show that Doctors believe the end of the NHS as we know it is a foregone conclusion. Is it impossible to redeem? Are all political parties to blame for its impending demise? Are Doctors to be believed?

    BBC News

    Comments please.
  2. Maybe the NHS is just too idealistic.

    I think that we should operate a means tested insurance policy where you pay for health insurance that is dependant on what you can afford. Although, I should imagine that this would have an implication on service healthcare, but then maybe if the Army was too only pay for injuries it was responcible for, or bring back military hosipitals.
  3. We have a national lottery
    Why is the money not used to fund our national health service instead of some these projects which are not much use to the public
    In my oppinion the public dont have much say in what the resorces are used for

    Also our governement should close the loop hole in our system to stop international people who have not contributed to our country using up our resources in our health system
  4. I disagree strongly. Having worked in the NHS for some years after leaving the regs I found a variety of people filling positions that they were not qualified for or able to manage properly.
    I work at present for a medical company providing the NHS with advanced surgical systems valued at over £1 million a pop. One trust I regularly work with thought that they had overspent to the tune of £172k. They contacted us and behold..............they were in credit by £91k :oops:
    No internal audits carried out for three years and no individual able to professionally financially budget manage :oops: Wrong people for the wrong job.
    I already pay via my NI contributions to the NHS. I will be damned if I will fund the Chief Exec's private medical care and company car. Half session and fully funded study days for consultants who are already overpaid for the standard and amount of work that they do.
    If only the public really knew the internal financial waste in the NHS.
    Over to you :twisted:
  5. And that's the crux of the problem. The NHS in the UK (still) has the potential to become one of the best in the world, but to do that it has to get rid of all the leeches, hangers-on and parasites that are paralysing it at the moment (and that includes Phoney Tony, Broon and all the rest of the disgusting, repugnant, well-connected grabbers who think they can earn themselves a nice, wool-lined financial future in the lines of the consultants paid for nothing more than their names and offices).

  6. maybe an independent trouble shooter, who starts at the top should be brought in. No say in how the NHS is run... he just gets rid of people who are incompentent in their role.
  7. As FastMedic states, the NHS is woefully managed and the main drain on resources are the differing levels of management with no real job! That is where the money is wasted and what do they do? Make the frontline staff redundant, those that make the NHS work, and not the fecking leeches in management positions :evil:
  8. I've worked in the NHS for 17 years and in all that time I've not really seen any improvements. From the outset its always been long waiting lists, budget deficits, cutbacks (especially in cleaning, catering etc) and job freezes. Despite all the extra dosh Labour have thrown at the NHS I still see wards that should have been pulled down 50 years ago, shite food, shite care, lack of cleanliness, fed up patients, fed up nurses, lack of beds, lack of clean laundry, lack of staff and now fed up doctors. Over the last 6-12 months I've begun to wonder if the way forward might well be a greater role for the private sector through health insurance. I've worked in private healthcare and whilst its not perfect they can and do offer the type of care most people have come to expect in 2006, i.e. private room, ensuite bathroom, TV, good food and cleanliness. They care about their corporate image and treat patients like individual customers not just another "case". I think the NHS has forgetten how to care, all too often resources are ploughed into new and very expensive scanners, drugs and treatments, thats all very well but its been done at the expense of some very basic patient needs such as pillows, individual care, edible food and clean sheets. I've seen the very best medical and nursing care money can buy, sadly I've also seen (and still see) useless lazy tossers who wouldn't have lasted 5 mins in a private business or a military hospital. I don't mean managers, I mean doctors and nurses.
    I have no idea what the government are playing at. There's a new grading system being brought in to put all NHS staff on the same pay scales (less doctors) and its a balls up. It also means we all get extra annual leave that I honestly don't need or want. My hospital's cleaning department had to find an extra 7000 hours of annual leave for its cleaners whilst also running a 20% sickness rate. The sterile services dept have looked into how they will cope and they can't do it unless they spend yet more money offering overtime to cover annual leave.
    I frequently have to go onto the wards to discuss individual patients, first I have to find a nurse, then I have to find a nurse who can speak English, then find one who actually knows something about the patient I've gone to see. It does my head in. There's something very wrong when the only way we can safely staff the wards is to get nurses from the Phillipines 'cos all the Britush nurses have gone to Australia, New Zealand and America (or Iraq if they are in the TA!)
    And please don't tell me that they should bring back Matron, its been tried its not effective, it needs something much more fudamental than that.
    One final point, I don't think doctors have all the answers here. Sadly when they talk only then do people listen, it does not make them right. I've checked out the group that the BBC reported on (Doctors for Change) on the web and there's lots of talk about what doctors want and very little about what patients need, not always the same thing.
    Time for another large glass of red wine, cheers.
  9. I work in the NHS and have done so for a very long time We have spent the last twenty plus years getting reorganised,this always costs I only know my line manager now ,any-one above that level I wouldn't know if I tripped over them.and believe me there are plentyof managers.The labour party will not be the government that ends Nye Bevans dream.all the money you read about I have seen no evidence.Doesn't get down to clinical level I questioned why a visitor from Pakistan was not being charged ,whose relatives insisited she was entitled to free care I enquired of one of the admin departments and the person I spoke to could hardly speak English.Anyway we got it sorted and she was to be invoiced wether or not any money will be forthcoming will be another matter.This country is the softest touch when it comes to abuse of the systerm.I don't think we should have a system like the USA so many there have no health care and I believe the insurance companies work out how long a hospital stay should be and won't pay for longer than the time they stipulate.Is that not part of the reason some of The Americans join up?The forces take care of health needs.As for the Agenda for change we have all had to do job descriptions some Nurses get more money but some get less.In Scotland so far no-body has got any-thing Gordon is going to give us 2.5% pay rise 2.5%of very little amounts to very little.So The Docs might have made a kiling in the pay stakes,I don't know any-one else who has.
  10. I agree with many of the observations made above, especially the most recent. I, too, work in healthcare since leaving after a full career. The major problem is in constant change and reorganisation. No sooner do we get a system or procedure in place than it is changed yet again. And everything has to be in writing, covering every single aspect of whatever. You just would not believe the paperwork connected, say, with instrument sterilisation processes. It's no longer a case of bunging the dirty instruments in an autoclave. You've got to label each instrument and record the details of every instrument used on a patient in the patient's notes. Think of the time THAT takes. You also have to have a certificate of accreditation from every company from whom you purchase instruments - a certificate or EACH piece of equipment or instrument! You need to have someone dedicated to the administration of sterilisation alone. And that's only the half of it.

    The NHS is riddled with management and administration specifically to provide stats for the politicians [which is demanded frequently and at length from hospitals and doctors surgeries], running budgets and maintaining records to be produced in court in the case of a law suit. GPs are under horrendous pressure from the dept of health to provide more and more without the funding to go with it. And every initiative invariably attracts severe criticism - out of hours service, for example, was forceably removed from GPs [or face a financial penalty]. However, the public are up in arms about the inferior replacement service so the Dept of Health [specifically Hewitt] specifically blamed the GPs for the fiasco, despite the GPs protesting about the introduction of the service.

    And the public have been promised [by Hewitt] that she would force GPs to extend their opening hours to cater for the whims of any patient - but will not give the practices the funds necessary to employ the additional staff needed [if you can find them, that is].

    The NHS is a major shambles. But don't believe all you read in the papers. The vast sums of money supposedly thrown at the NHS have NOT gone to pay doctors and nurses massive pay rises. A large proportion of that funding has been swallowed up in clearing previous deficits and creating more management/admin empires. Most GPs have not had a pay rise in 2 years, and very, very few GPs get anywhere approaching £80K let alone figure bandied about indicating they get twice that.

    No, my friends, the current shambles is of political making, creative accounting and bu**ering about, screwing what was once an excellent service.

    Not unlike education, dentists, the Armed Forces...
  11. I fully support the ideals of the NHS and as was mentioned earlier , i would NOT want to follow the American Health Insurance model, its flawed, many American fall through the net as many have died because they couldn't afford the treatments.

    there are problems within the NHS which need to be sorted, it is a fine institution that should be preserved, what we need is a independent troubleshooter to go in and have a look and what needs to be inproved without political interfrence and all the recommendations acted on, not watered down or cherry picked. the full 100% nowt less.
  13. The thing is it's not a choice between the NHS and the American system a lot of Western countries have much better mixes of private/public healthcare. The NHS is generally regarded as the model NOT to be emulated by American policy wonks who would like a universal health care system in their country. Admittedly changing over to the swedish, swiss, french, singaporean or Australian model (all of which are arguably superior) would be very, very difficult and hugely expensive.
  14. If private healthcare is bought in most serving soldiers would be totally stuffed. I couldn't afford to provide private healthcare for my family on the money I earn :(
  15. In the US private health care is provided to all service members as part of their total compensation package.