The Election 2015 Post Mortem

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
Having debated and argued ourselves to near death through an extraordinarily long and vacuous election campaign we now face tomorrow night's arithmetic and hey presto, we probably won't have a government. How can one of the oldest democracies on the planet produce such an outcome? I suspect there will be very few south of Hadrian's Wall (used figuratively rather than geographically) who are content with the outcome (and the non SNP Scots are unlikely to be chuffed either). WTF went wrong and, more importantly, how can we fix it?

I see no point in bleating about the voting system on this thread (although crack on if it makes you feel better) as we did turn down an opportunity to change it recently. I see the problem being more about the way in which the campaign was conducted.

The main concern of most voters this time round was the economy, and some of the parties made some pretty outrageous commitments that were not fully costed. Amazingly no one laid a finger on Milliband until the BBC QT Leader's presentation, when his economics was demolished by the public. One has to wonder quite what is the point of TV journalists who can't take a politician to task about something as fundamental. My first proposal is therefore that all parties spending plans should be submitted (at the party's expense) to an accounting body for audit and analysis. If the numbers don't stack up then they should be lambasted. UKIP should be commended for pretty much doing this by all those who have lambasted them.

I learnt nothing from any of the leaders debates, apart from the last one where they had to fact the public - hunting as a pack. Therefore rather than those PR charades I think we should go for a more session of leader v public, one at a time. It might also be instructive to have ones with the leader, chancellor, home office and foreign secretary. Moreover local TV and radio stations should be encouraged to do the same.

Next problem is that, as an English Resident I have no interest in Plaid, SNP or the Ulster gang. We now have devolved parliaments for non-English parts of UK. I do not see why a national party should be allowed to stand for UK government. Plaid, SNP and the rest have no place in Westminster, and no place on my TV screen. There are probably some issues with this, which I have yet to get my head round, but the simple solution would be to require that any political party either stands in all seats of the UK or none of them. This does not prevent independents standing. I am confident that the solution to the problem is not an English Parliament - more politicians are the last thing that we need.

Final point is that the campaign has been far too long. Do we really need that much time to pick one bloke?
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#2
We only have six weeks of the nonsense. Pity the Yanks. Theirs starts from pretty much the day after the election.
 
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Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
The Campaign per se was 5 weeks, although of course the wretches are at it all the time.

Quite how the septics decided elections every other year were a good idea escapes me. But then again, they have an admirable record of shooting Presidents who piss them off too much...
 
#4
You can blame the coalition for that and the 5 years fixed term parliament, normally the election would have been called by the incumbent government at a time and date to their advantage

Archie
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
If only...

Interesting point about the media being unable to hold the fuckwits to account... I veer towards thinking that they simply didn't want to even though cockup is generally more likely than conspiracy...

The FTPA was down to Cleggy's little boys, who didn't want those nasty toffs to call an election and turf them out at the first opportunity. I think we'll see some serious ramifications from this..

Other than the Act the situation is little different to after the first world war, old labour were on the rise and the old Liberals were finally destroyed after 4 elections in 6 years.
 
#6
I'm still agahst that so many people have such short memories and do not see the benefit of getting the countries finances into shape.
TBH, The current (last?) govt has been whiter than white as regards scandels and its treatment of the electorate.
 
#7
We only have six months of the nonsense. Pity the Yanks. Theirs starts from pretty much the day after the election.
Thanks. My time here has been refreshingly free of "xxx and I support this ad" stuff. I am not complaining about how "in your face" the campaigning here has been...
 
#8
I'm still agahst that so many people have such short memories and do not see the benefit of getting the countries finances into shape.
TBH, The current (last?) govt has been whiter than white as regards scandels and its treatment of the electorate.
Off the top of my head Laws, Fox & Millar. Mercer, Straw, Rifkind.
 
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#9
If we change the system to PR or AV, we will end up with hung parliaments. No one party will be able to win an overall majority and the big party of the Tories will have to rely on NI seats plus the not quite Liberals to prop them up and the other big party of the Labour will have to rely on socialists from Scotland and Wales to prop them up with each trying to get a green or a Ukip (if any) member on board.
Now, with the first past the post system, we don't get any of that..........
Oh, sh1te, another briefing paper through the shredder then.
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
Ditching FPTP would basically make us European overnight...

Now that could mean big titted porn stars in parliament, or it could give the boy Clegg a blowjob after every election.
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#11
Two elections in a row where we fail to vote in a majority government, proves to me that party politics does not work.

Abolish all political parties. Vote for a local candidate who you think will best represent your interests and the interests of your local community in parliament.

The problem with the current system is that MPs tend to vote on matters in order to support their party and work their way up the food chain. MP's personal career interests will always come before what is actually right for their constituency when it comes down to a vote.

As a very rough and basic example lets say parliament have to vote on whether or not to raise tax on 4x4s. The MP for some rural dump in the middle of the countryside should vote to not raise taxes, many of his constituents probably drive 4x4s and he is their voice in parliament. However this MP is lined up for a cabinet job as long as he keeps his nose clean and tows the party line.

So in order to preserve his own interests, he just does what he's told, votes in favour of raising the tax on 4x4s and all the poor ******* who voted him in, end up getting fucked.

Of course I know this will never happen, but it's a nice idea.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
Two elections in a row where we fail to vote in a majority government, proves to me that party politics does not work.

Abolish all political parties. Vote for a local candidate who you think will best represent your interests and the interests of your local community in parliament.

The problem with the current system is that MPs tend to vote on matters in order to support their party and work their way up the food chain. MP's personal career interests will always come before what is actually right for their constituency when it comes down to a vote.

As a very rough and basic example lets say parliament have to vote on whether or not to raise tax on 4x4s. The MP for some rural dump in the middle of the countryside should vote to not raise taxes, many of his constituents probably drive 4x4s and he is their voice in parliament. However this MP is lined up for a cabinet job as long as he keeps his nose clean and tows the party line.

So in order to preserve his own interests, he just does what he's told, votes in favour of raising the tax on 4x4s and all the poor ******* who voted him in, end up getting fucked.

Of course I know this will never happen, but it's a nice idea.
If you abolish the parties, how do you form a Government?
 
#13
Two elections in a row where we fail to vote in a majority government, proves to me that party politics does not work.

Abolish all political parties. Vote for a local candidate who you think will best represent your interests and the interests of your local community in parliament.

The problem with the current system is that MPs tend to vote on matters in order to support their party and work their way up the food chain. MP's personal career interests will always come before what is actually right for their constituency when it comes down to a vote.

As a very rough and basic example lets say parliament have to vote on whether or not to raise tax on 4x4s. The MP for some rural dump in the middle of the countryside should vote to not raise taxes, many of his constituents probably drive 4x4s and he is their voice in parliament. However this MP is lined up for a cabinet job as long as he keeps his nose clean and tows the party line.

So in order to preserve his own interests, he just does what he's told, votes in favour of raising the tax on 4x4s and all the poor ******* who voted him in, end up getting fucked.

Of course I know this will never happen, but it's a nice idea.
You do realise that that is the way it is supposed to happen, don't you? The British system was always to vote for the individual candidate and not for a party as we don't vote in a president.
Party lines were what the MPs did, not the electorate, in about the middle of the 18th century when Whigs and the Conservatives became effectively warring factions.
In 1867, the enfranchisement of the working man, as opposed to middle class property owners, having the vote brought in workers representatives although it would be 1900 before the Labour party appeared.
Since then, voting by the electorate along party lines became more and more prevalent.
We are still supposed to vote for the person who will best represent our constituency although that appears to have been confined to history.
 

SPIDER38

On ROPS
On ROPs
#14
I think it quite possible that we could well see the same con/lib goverment on Friday ,unfortunately there will also be lots and lots of jocks [Westminster is going to need a bigger Bar and or more of them ,lets just hope they dont get too excited like they did in Manchester after that European football tournament ,that city square apparently still smells of piss to this day] .

This utter crap being spouted by Cameron and Miliband about a vote for UKIP is a vote in the wrong direction for either one of them is an insult to firstly Democracy and secondly the English people ,are they really saying that our so called democracy is [and perhaps always has been] only a question of two parties? ...thus the taffs and jokes can vote for their respective partys but the English [who's job it seems to be is to pay their f*cki*g bills and be quiet about it] aren't allowed to vote for loosely our own ,ha ha ha the days of being told what to do by our betters is over .


[Vote UKIP]
 
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#15
I'm still agahst that so many people have such short memories and do not see the benefit of getting the countries finances into shape.
TBH, The current (last?) govt has been whiter than white as regards scandels and its treatment of the electorate.
Can I add to that that if they had tackled the subjects of Europe and Immigration, then they'd be streets ahead. This failure has cost them. How much remains to be seen.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
I think it quite possible that we could well see the same con/lib goverment on Friday ,unfortunately there will also be lots and lots of jocks [Westminster is going to need a bigger Bar and or more of them ,lets just hope they dont get too excited like they did in Manchester after a european football tournament ,that city square still smells of piss to this day] .

This utter crap being spouted by Cameron and Miliband about a vote for UKIP is a vote in the wrong direction for either one of them is an insult to firstly Democracy and secondly the English people ,are they really saying that our so called democracy is [and perhaps always has been] only a question of two parties? ...thus the taffs and jokes can vote for their respective partys but the English [who's job it seems to be is to pay their f*cki*g bills and be quiet about it] aren't allowed to vote for losely our own ,ha ha ha the days of being told what to do by our betters is over .


[Vote UKIP]
Firstly, there will be the same number of Scottish MPs on Friday as there are now. It's just that the SNP will make up the overwhelming majority of them. Not a one of them will be a Tory or a Kipper.

Secondly, UKIP are supposed to be a national party (the clue is in the name) not an English Nationalist party. UKIP will probably have two seats, three, if they're lucky (that includes Farage gaining Thanet South and that is looking a bit shaky). The two main parties are very probably right in their self interested analyses, but by any dispassionate examination UKIP have but two chances of affecting the outcome of this election.

The first is slim.

The second, fat.
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
#17
The debate I was seeking to start is less about the outcome, and it may well be that the country in its current state is best served by a coalition, than the rotten process of the election campaign and what can we as individuals do in order to ensure a better campaign which might or might not produce an outcome that we can be more confided is a reflection of popular sentiment rather than the combination of FTP and jerrymandered boundaries. I appreciate that this is a bit of a dream but:
1. We could submit a petition for a private members bill requiring all parties to submit their spending plans to audit by an impartial professional.
2. We could seek to persuade broadcasters that leadership debates are a waste of time whereas leader versus public works.
etc.
 

SPIDER38

On ROPS
On ROPs
#18
Firstly, there will be the same number of Scottish MPs on Friday as there are now. It's just that the SNP will make up the overwhelming majority of them. Not a one of them will be a Tory or a Kipper.

Secondly, UKIP are supposed to be a national party (the clue is in the name) not an English Nationalist party. UKIP will probably have two seats, three, if they're lucky (that includes Farage gaining Thanet South and that is looking a bit shaky). The two main parties are very probably right in their self interested analyses, but by any dispassionate examination UKIP have but two chances of affecting the outcome of this election.

The first is slim.

The second, fat.
your second point about UKIP being a national party is true of course [i did also say loosely, however] but amongst other things their opposition to us handing the jocks a nice fat cheque every year in the guise of the Barnett formula ie English charity or English bribery, gets my attention.

But i also agree i think if we get three MP's we will be lucky ,i believe we will get a massive new percentage but it will not count for buttons on the day in fact we will get millions of votes but that will not translate ,the SNP will also get millions less votes and they will get thirty forty ,fifty seats in the commons ,and we carry on kidding ourselves that we are the craddle of democracy LOL .
 
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#19
Certain parties will be bricking it, not about the outcome of this election, but the financial cost of running a second campaign right after.

Expensive hobbies, elections.
 
#20
Post Mortem.
We are going to wake up on Friday morning with parties wrangling over who should have the first chance to form a government. The Conservatives will gain the most seats but probably about 30 odd short of a majority and more votes. Labour will have less than 270 seats and less of the popular vote. The Liberals, who should be confined to history, will still pick up about 27 seats.
Up in the Scotland, the SNP will take virtually all the seats there, probably at least 56.
Ukip will retain one seat or maybe 2 and the Greens will be back to no MPs.
An analysis of the seats will show that Ukip took votes in marginal Tory seats and helped Labour gain about 15 from the Tories and Liberals whilst the Ukip votes in Labour areas only caused 1 seat to swing away from them.
If the Tories get the support of the DUP and the Liberals then they may, just, be able to form a majority government but it will be neck and neck with a Labour, SNP, Plaid Cymru alliance which could tip the balance.
Probable outcome of Tory/DUP/Liberal at 320 seats, Labour/SNP/PC at 322 seats. Add in George Galloway for one seat, the 5 Sinn Fein seats in NI and the 2 Ukip seats.
No overall majority so it would be down to how Sinn Fein, if they take up their seats, decide to sit.
Could be a very dodgy tightrope parliament whichever way it settles.
 

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