The Demise of The RAMC (5 easy steps)

Discussion in 'Professionally Qualified, RAMC and QARANC' started by ViciousCircle, Nov 8, 2006.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. * * * * WARNING * * * * INCOMING RANT * * * * WARNING * * * *

    I had a very open and frank discussion just the other day with some senior officers over a G+T and after a healthy if not loud debate the following reasons were blamed as the pre-disposing factors that have caused the RAMC (not AMS) to be in its current state:

    DCS 15

    Caused flocks of consultants to leave, lost many good men and the closure of Mil Hospitals generated a poor opinion of the RAMC amongst the larger Army.

    ATR (Litchfield) (15 years ago)

    The formation of the ATR's and the mixed training of RAMC recruits with POW Div and Para watered down our traditional and long standing ethos building amongst recruits.

    DMSTC (12 years ago)

    The change from a green (army) establishment to a purple (tri-service) one meant that the recruit with a distict lack of RAMC ethos spent a further 9 months developing a tri-service menality and became just a soldier with no loyalty to the RAMC its values or its history.

    Maj (TFI)(long time but more so over the last 9 years)

    Due to the influx of Majors that have re-badged from other capbadges the RAMC now has a selection of mud-bloods amongst its senior management. who have no knowledge of the RAMC, its traditions or its history and frankly they dont care. Some of the original TFI's are now LtCol or Col.

    LE (All Arms) (last 5 - 7 years)

    The passed 7 years have seen an increase in the LE's from other arms and services. Lets put asside their ability as with all breeds some are excellent, some are good and some are ARRSE. However none bring with them any Corps Values. This is not so unusual as most who serve 20+ years in a Corps will always cling to the history and values of that corps.

    so let us look at the Corps History, Values and Esprit de Corps.

    Nearly all of our Pte's - Sgt have been through a mixed and muddled training regime and have no love of the RAMC and have little or no Esprit de Corps.

    Capt - LtCol have been watered down by Maj (TFI's) and LE's to an extent where in some units the CO is a PQO(not his fault), the 2IC is for instance Ex RLC and the Adjt, Trg Officer RCMO and families officer are all Ex something or another ?

    Please discuss on the board if you will, how do we as a Corps seriously expect to build upon our great military history and develope our Corps standards, Ethos (to use a CRSM term) and our values, standards and Esprit de Corps when we will soon have no-one that knows, understands or cares about it ?

    :oops: :oops: :oops: RANT OVER
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    I wager the said Senior officers couldnt give a toss what was discussed, once they had slunk back to their staff cars and Ivory Tower. They have a nice niche and are probably re-treads anyway.
  3. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    VC, you must be due out soon as all the above points have be identified as the reason why the RAMC has gone down the pan, come out the sewage pipe and been recycled and used again.

    ATR Litchfield was always seen as a quick fix to get the RAMC into mainstream Army basic training.

    DCS 15 was for me the death nail cause, the Corps rolled over as the vultures gathered and we were ripped apart. The loss of all BMHs has been held a s a mistake and now it is way to late to return to the good old days. DCS 15 gave those who wanted to maim the RAMC the oppotunity to kill it off nearly entitely. It, as VC states, caused the loss of many specialists, it funnelled the OR's into a 'rank block' that took 10 years+ to get through and sorted.

    The welcoming of TFI's has watered down a Corps ethos that was weak as pi$$ anyway and the influx has led to a Corps that nearly hates itself as much as the RMP. I speak to serving SNCO's who couldnt give a monkey's about the RAMC history, VC Anniversaries and passing on the 'flame' of our history to the young soldiers, for them to pass on in the future.

    I know of very few, if only one, RSM who takes new Sgts into the Mess and makes their first day as a SNCO a learning experience. Plus the chance to get some ale down your neck and have a half day off.

    The Tri Service DMSTC is also a political beast which has no part in the RAMC and this has been discussed to death, much like the RAMC, we have no 'home'. But then again neither do the RMP.

    Pretty much a rant too, and some of my assumption may be incorrect. But whatever way the party liners dress it up, the RAMC is now only years away from demise into some shoddy non-military affiliated armed cub scout group run by QA's.

    Chavasse would be spinning in his grave if he didnt hate the Corps so much, (See Chavasse Double VC) For the younger of the Corps, he is one of our many VC holders, which is a gallantry award.
  4. I'm afraid I'm a recent NAO statistic, having left after 12 years RAMC.

    Our beloved corps has been bled dry and I for one was not prepared to continue to watch its slow painful death.

    Rant over. Carry on.
  5. 2 cracking posts.
  6. I fail to see the relevance of the ATR LICHFILED argument. You could say this is because i went through there but think that yours is a pretty narrow minded opinion.

    I myself have baggs of esprit de corps and fly the flag high (that said im in no hurry to wear a TRF). Guy's, you are using this as an excuse to have a pop at us young un's.

    I would agree that the "Purple" DMSTC and common corp has had an impact for two reasons.

    1. PURPLE training environment at such an influential stage.
    2. Too long in initial training.
  7. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    My rant is certainly no dig at the members of the Corps of today or where they came from.

    It is a dig at those at the top who rolled over and allowed the RAMC to be dismantled so easily. If it could be repaired the parts are now gone and the RAMC lies in ITU waiting for the plug to be pulled.

    The fact you dont want to wear the Corps TRF, says your 'esprit de corps' is lacking somewhere along the line.
  8. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    Can't wait for the party liners to hijack this wonderful thread.
  9. I agree with these two excellent posts. It feels as if the Corps has been ritually disembowelled. I don't have a view of the numbers involved but the amount of resignations from my part of the Corps (GDMO/RMO) has been astonishing.

    Since leaving recently, in addition to no longer wearing green / being shot at, I'm making more than three times my Army salary. This isn't an argument for departure - although it is a pleasant consequence.
  10. I'm fed up with the RAMC, its gone steadily downhill for as long as I've been in (since 89). I am not alone in having seen many changes brought in, some for the better (not that I can think of any of them right now) and most for the worst. The only reason I've not signed off is that I don't have long left, till I can be a bitter and twisted civi, and not just a bitter and twisted Squaddie.

    I can't believe how low the personnel levels are (can't say manning levels any more can we?) down at the squadrons. Strangely they have more to do than ever before.

    I don't want the TRF, whats the point? Do we need one? Surely the red cross armband/cap badge and arrival in a BFA/432/Landrover with a red cross on is enough to identify us? I'm lead to believe that the RAMC TRF is basically the old DZ Flash, I'm not para trained, and I am never going to be. I don't want to look like an RAMC para walt.

    I have to stop now or I'll rant for hours and kill the thread.
  11. Frank Wrote:

    I Wrote:

    Frank, please dont turn my views of the current condition of the beloved RAMC into anything personal. I have met and worked with Pte's throught to Brig who have all got the utmost respect for the RAMC and its fallen who served so spendidly and who continue to strive to make the RAMC what it was 20 years ago. I am sure you are of the same ilk as these that I speak of and I wish you luck in the future.

    Ventress Wrote:

    As it happens Venty I have a good few years left yet. :wink:
  12. Ventress Wrote:

    Sorry to say that I have an opinion on this one too:

    The RAMC will in the next 3 - 5 years be merged with the QARANC, RAVC & RADC to form the Army Medical Services, this will be one beret, one capbadge blah, blah, blah (cost cutting exercise) we were lucky to avoid this when it happened to the Corps of the RLC.

    Then once VEng is introduced and we are on a similar career path as the RAF and Navy we will become a Defence Medical Services.

    I will be long gone by then, but that is not an excuse to lie back and let it happen. One should openly and constructively criticise the move before it happens. The Army requires medical support given by those of the same ilk and sadly a tri-service environment does not always allow that kind of support.
  13. me too!! :D
  14. Bugger, I won't be though :cry:
  15. gooseman Wrote:

    Thats OK

    Just keep Low, Run Fast and continuously deny everything and you will be fine ! 8) 8) 8) 8)