The Defence Budget - Where does it all go?

#1
Well its my first post and I thought I would start off big.

Our defence budget we are told is supposedly too small. I have a problem with this, at the moment it stands at roughly £33 billion a year, that's the fourth highest military expenditure budget in the world, ITS MORE THAN RUSSIA SPENDS. How on earth can this not be enough? It works out at about £165,000 per person. :?

It may seem overly simplistic to break it down in this way, but come on, £165,000 per person and bugger all kit is available (plus this budget doesn't include actual wartime expenses ammo, fuel etc. Thats kept separate from this), am I missing something?

This may seem a blindingly obviously stupid question but, 'Has anyone ever performed an independent audit of this budget and seen were it all actually goes?'. Someone somewhere is putting Madoff to shame... :x
 
#2
Roughly half in on pay, pensions and allowances. The other half goes on equipment. The catch is that the large equipment programmes and PFI projects tend to eat up most of the equipment slice, meaning that there isn't that much cash that can be flexed around for useful stuff. For example, you could stop flying typhoons immediately, but wouldn't actually save that much cash as MOD is committed to contracts and PFIs to support the aircraft whether they fly or not.

UORs have been a fantastic source of money for kit for ops, but the treasury have become wise to this as a method of subsidising the equipment programme, and are reducing the amount available.

It does seem a lot of cash, but it doesn't actually go that far.
 
#3
33 billion for defence may sound a lot,but what about some 200 billion for the DSS?.That's 6 times more for keeping chavs,immigrants,asylum seekers and pikeys in comfort.

I might be wrong,but 33 billion should work out at 528 Quid per person?.That's assuming 60 million population(but maybe 165,000 Quid per taxpayer)??.

Being I'm in Thailand,there's no Quid key on this PC.
 
#4
UORs aren't subsidising the EP - they meet gaps where the EP isn't providing. As someone who sees pretty much every UOR going, I can assure you that anything that smacks of "subsidising the EP" simply doesn't fly. More to the point the fund isn't reducing - we can have as much as we want in year - we just have to pay back everything over a certain amount at a later date.

As for where the money goes - £6Bn ish on the Equipment Programme, while Forces salaries amount to £8Bn, and MOD CS salaries are another £2bn on top of that. Operating costs, fixed costs of bases, infrastructure and so on.

Worth noting that the additional costs of military ops doesnt come out of the budget, but comes out of HMT, we should theoretically find that Ops are cost neutral. Theory and practise however are very different beasts!
 
#5
The septics are spending £708bn this year on defence-related purposes according to Wiki, including financing the cost of war. The defence budget is having to pay for some of our wartime expenses, as the Treasury was supposed to but backed down IIRC.

We spend 1.5493% of our GDP on defence, but 21.8% on welfare not including education. The defence budget is not large enough to cope with the innate inefficiency of the MOD, and not large enough for a nation which wishes to fight two wars and remain one of the UNSC superpowers (punching significantly above its weight globally). £165,000 may sound a lot of money, however have you considered how much things like warships actually cost?
 
#6
ra043 said:
Well its my first post and I thought I would start off big.

Our defence budget we are told is supposedly too small. I have a problem with this, at the moment it stands at roughly £33 billion a year, that's the fourth highest military expenditure budget in the world, ITS MORE THAN RUSSIA SPENDS. How on earth can this not be enough? It works out at about £165,000 per person. :?

It may seem overly simplistic to break it down in this way, but come on, £165,000 per person and bugger all kit is available (plus this budget doesn't include actual wartime expenses ammo, fuel etc. Thats kept separate from this), am I missing something?

This may seem a blindingly obviously stupid question but, 'Has anyone ever performed an independent audit of this budget and seen were it all actually goes?'. Someone somewhere is putting Madoff to shame... :x
Which rag do you work for?
 
#7
The £165,000 per person is the amount spent per person within the armed forces, there is roughly 200,000 people in the UK armed forces (thats rounding up figures not down).

Your number is right for the whole population though!
 
#8
Russia doesnt opperate one of the most advanced militaries in the world.

Tanks, Planes and Submarines are expensive.

But so are the people that man them and the training they undertake.
 
#9
pombsen-armchair-warrior said:
ra043 said:
Well its my first post and I thought I would start off big.

Our defence budget we are told is supposedly too small. I have a problem with this, at the moment it stands at roughly £33 billion a year, that's the fourth highest military expenditure budget in the world, ITS MORE THAN RUSSIA SPENDS. How on earth can this not be enough? It works out at about £165,000 per person. :?

It may seem overly simplistic to break it down in this way, but come on, £165,000 per person and bugger all kit is available (plus this budget doesn't include actual wartime expenses ammo, fuel etc. Thats kept separate from this), am I missing something?

This may seem a blindingly obviously stupid question but, 'Has anyone ever performed an independent audit of this budget and seen were it all actually goes?'. Someone somewhere is putting Madoff to shame... :x
Which rag do you work for?
Eh why would this be newsworthy?

'Armed forces not happy with amount of money in their budget shocker'

Already common knowledge mate what I'm interested in is how this much money is spent so badly and whether or not there has ever been an independent audit of were it all goes?

My point isnt that the budget should be cut but rather bearing in mind how high it already is (and how small our armed forces are in global terms) why is there such serious equipment shortages?
 
#10
ra043 said:
The £165,000 per person is the amount spent per person within the armed forces, there is roughly 200,000 people in the UK armed forces (thats rounding up figures not down).
Yes! VERY mischievous presentation of statistics.

Try these ...




...and...

Government Spending in Real Terms
2000-01 2007-08

121,000 133,882 Social security benefits
52,000 89,673 Health
16,786 57,846 Education
33,000 22,000 Local Government
32,183 32,831 Defense
10,423 13,571 Home Office
15,018 23,510 Scotland
7,885 12,481 Wales
2,819 4,637 International Development

433,161 557,400 Total Government Expenditure


Now then. Shall we discuss whether some of the other areas of expenditure offer value for money, shall we?
 
#11
ra043 said:
Already common knowledge mate what I'm interested in is how this much money is spent so badly and whether or not there has ever been an independent audit of were it all goes?
Now you're just taking the pi$$...

Ever heard of the Treasury, the NAO and the Defence Select Committee?
 
#12
And...

ra043 said:
My point isnt that the budget should be cut but rather bearing in mind how high it already is (and how small our armed forces are in global terms) why is there such serious equipment shortages?
Errr!

Try comparing the outcomes expected of HM Armed Forces with the 1998 Defence White Paper which specified the scale of tasks for which the military was to be resourced. You may spot, if you have a genuine interest in the matter, a significant difference.
 
#13
Being a stinkig crowbag I've not been on Operations yet, but I've been led to believe that the kit the guys are getting now (other than weighing more than my mum) is top notch. Or are we talking about equipment, rather than personal kit? Ok so the snatch is never popular, but we have some shiny new Apache attack helos with the most advanced optics suite in the world (allegedly). A bit of a clarification over what kinds of kit or equipment you think are so whank would be nice.
 
#14
Whitecity I do have a genuine interest thats why I'm asking the questions. Apologies for my ignorance but I was under the impression that if you didnt know something you asked to find out.

Okay The treasury, NAO and defence select committee, what is their verdict of the current budget? is it spent well or is it squandered? Is it adequate or is it too little? If it is too little how much does it actually need to be?

The answers to these is the point of the thread not bashing someone who holds his hand up and doesnt know.

Also I wasnt trying to be misleading with the budget stats I just found it shocking that we are ranked 4th in military and was wondering what we had that ate up so much of the budget?
 
#15
In reference to kit I mean why dont we have more boats, tanks, planes, helicopters, transport craft, armoured vehicles etc.

As for whank kit, Snatch, RARDEN, nearly every ship in the navy bar the new type 45's and the astutes, most of our helicopters airframes are knackered, same with the planes, transport craft are long in the tooth etc etc

The whole UK military's inventory rather than individual soldiers kit.
 
#16
Well I wouldnt know about any individual items of equipment, but as far as I know from what I have read a lot of the decesions about kit are pressured by the political class, tainted by the "need" to buy british and hence the actual performance drops as cost skyrockets...
 
#17
ra043 said:
pombsen-armchair-warrior said:
ra043 said:
Well its my first post and I thought I would start off big.

Our defence budget we are told is supposedly too small. I have a problem with this, at the moment it stands at roughly £33 billion a year, that's the fourth highest military expenditure budget in the world, ITS MORE THAN RUSSIA SPENDS. How on earth can this not be enough? It works out at about £165,000 per person. :?

It may seem overly simplistic to break it down in this way, but come on, £165,000 per person and bugger all kit is available (plus this budget doesn't include actual wartime expenses ammo, fuel etc. Thats kept separate from this), am I missing something?

This may seem a blindingly obviously stupid question but, 'Has anyone ever performed an independent audit of this budget and seen were it all actually goes?'. Someone somewhere is putting Madoff to shame... :x
Which rag do you work for?
Eh why would this be newsworthy?

'Armed forces not happy with amount of money in their budget shocker'

Already common knowledge mate what I'm interested in is how this much money is spent so badly and whether or not there has ever been an independent audit of were it all goes?

My point isnt that the budget should be cut but rather bearing in mind how high it already is (and how small our armed forces are in global terms) why is there such serious equipment shortages?
My bold. It's not particluarly but the my suspicion is to pick up some quotes from 'our man on the inside' for the article.
 
#18
ra043 said:
Whitecity I do have a genuine interest thats why I'm asking the questions. Apologies for my ignorance but I was under the impression that if you didnt know something you asked to find out.

Okay The treasury, NAO and defence select committee, what is their verdict of the current budget? is it spent well or is it squandered? Is it adequate or is it too little? If it is too little how much does it actually need to be?
So, if you're so interested, why are you asking for rumour, idle gossip, speculation and commentary on ARRSE when you can read the reports yourself first hand. It would also help if you read the MoD's Annual Accounts and numerous reports.

Everything is available free of charge on the internet.

ra043 said:
The answers to these is the point of the thread not bashing someone who holds his hand up and doesnt know.

Also I wasnt trying to be misleading with the budget stats I just found it shocking that we are ranked 4th in military and was wondering what we had that ate up so much of the budget?
Your failure to do the obvious research already suggests you are not really interested and are just trolling to start a flame war or trying to drum up some quotes to cut&paste into a chip wrapper or course essay.
 
#20
Burst_Disk said:
I can tell you somewhere it ain't being spent - on my fecking quarter!
What do you expect with a tashe like that! I'm surprised you're even allowed a quarter and not kicked straight onto the streets.
 

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