The Death of Free speech.

E

error_unknown

Guest
#1
Have just tried to reply to certain individuals questioning my democratic credentials. In most of my prolific posts I have raised the issue regarding the loss of freedom of expression and the stifling of legitimate debate in our country. It seems this site is not immune:

from Tricam:

From: tricam
To: Herrenbloke
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:19 pm
Subject: Herrenbloke...
Hey,

I'm forwarding this PM to the COs, the MODs of the Intelligence_Cell, PTP as current affairs MOD as he's had to deal with this problem a lot and to Herrenbloke as well as I like to be straight with people.

I'm a big fan of ARRSE and credits to the COs/mods for running a great site. One of the many reasons I like ARRSE is the diversity of viewpoint in current affairs - from fairly gung-ho right wing chaps such as T6... lefty tree huggers such as Crabtastic... Unionists such as Manchester_Cop / BlotBangRub... The list goes on and on and although I disagree with many of these people I do appreciate getting to hear their views...

Herrenbloke posts from a fairly Islamaphobic/racist slant - he probably agrees with much of what the BNP says. Its interesting to see the BNP angle and to occasionally debate issues such as multiculturalism etc. In fact, as a result of these debates and posts by people such as Cpunk if I ever do meet a member of the BNP in real life I'll be well armed to destroy his arguments.

However I find his relentless pushing of an agenda annoying. Why?
1) He posts so frequently that I think he dominates the tone of ARRSE and it presents a very negative impression of squaddies for any visitors.
2) I believe many people feel a need to 'take him on' in order to ensure ARRSE presents a more reasonable view to the outside world - but these relentless debates about the same issues are boring.

Take for example this thread... As Birdie points out he is responsible for 1/3 of the posts...
www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/...rt=60.html
He has made a whopping 1100 posts in 3 months!!! Many of these are fairly length posts on current affairs (Biscuits_AB probably posts that often too but his are brief 1-liners).

Is there anything that can be done about this? I do like to hear Herrenbloke's view occasionally but is it possible he be instructed to be not quite as prolific with his postings?

Cheers,

Tricam.

From another user

Gentlemen, Herrenbloke is clearly on a mission. My guess is that he is a spokesperson for the BNP. It has been 3 months only to the day since he joined the site and in that time has posted an extraordinary number of posts (over 1100) the vast majority of which revolve around hard rightwing ideology. In this thread alone now numbering some 70 posts he accounts for one third, at times running to four consecutive posts. It appears he is intent on swamping this site with his 'warm and well reasoned' debate but it is infact facism. I may not be altogether happy with the way somethings are going in our society but this cr*p is not the answer.

Herrenbloke is a dangerous troll and should seen as such.

Frow a mod:

I'm locking this thread because while you guys are doing a sterling job of showing Herrenbloke for the biggoted tube he is, I think this topic has run it's course.
_________________
Int Cell and RLC Forums Moderator


Of course the fact that these defenders of democracy are determined to censor free speech and stop debate speaks for itself. Makes you wonder who the true Bigots are on this site does it not. I expect that this thread shall be pulled but thank you all for proving my point!
 
#2
Herrenbloke,

As I asked you last time you posted this thread...

I mentioned my admiration for a few other posters in my private message to you. I'm not really into brown nosing and would appreciate it if you would edit out the names of 3rd parties from my PM to you.

Thanks,
Tricam.
 
#5
It seems certain people lack the cowardice of their convictions...
This sentence is a double negative but I know what you were trying to say...


And its not really true Herrenbloke...

If I lacked courage of my convictions then I would not have sent a copy of that PM to you. I would have simply complained to the mods/cos. But I didn't - I was straight with you and let you know what I was complaining about.

However, brown nosing is slightly different. I'm not a sycophant and I rarely go around telling posters how clever/funny their posts are.

Now I'd appreciate it if you'd be a gent and edit out the names of 3rd parties from post...

Thanks a million,
Tricam
 
#6
....and others dont seem to get the message. If you dont like the way your 'free speech' is being strangled, herren, may I suggest you go to a website more suited to your views and opinions.
 

Sixty

ADC
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#7
Posted by myself on the last 'free speech' thread that was deleted:

Tricam has a point.

Leaving aside the utterly dishonourable publishing of a private message on an open forum, much of what Herrenbloke (I'm assuming a fairly weak pun on Herrenvolk= Master race?) posts is borderline racist and certainly Islamophobic.

Good for Tricam for calling him on it.
 
#8
Herrenbloke, if you're not a BNP plant then take a step back, two deep breaths and think on the following statements:

Someone who disagrees with you is not necessarily attempting to curtail your freedom of speech and help usher in a totalitarian regime based on the work of Karl Marx et al.

Someone who disagrees with you is not necessarily on a personal crusade to discredit you, they may just think you are a bigoted tube who posts an awful lot of crap.

The fact they can form such an opinion and you can reply does seem to argue for the existence of freedom of speech.

But you post often and verbosely and frankly you shouldn't be surprised if people start to think you're kicking the arrse out of it. If your conversation down the pub is the same as your posts here then you'd find yourself alone as your drinking buddies would think "oh Jesus here he comes again. leg it before we get another two hour rant on current affairs".

Lighten up, relax, and try to think twice, post once.

Now if you want to take this personally or as evidence of a vast conspiracy involving foreigners, immigrants (illegal of course), the Masons, the Girl Guides, Rosicrucians, Atlanteans and that bloke down the pub who says he used to be with "them" then crack on. It's neither, just a plea for you to do some self-analysis and increase the signal to noise ratio in your posts.
 
#9
Come on guys, I'm shure this thread was deleted first time round for a good reason.

Just accept the rules and drive on. Or get a life, one or the other.

Herrenvolk - this means you. Take your nonsense elsewhere.
 
#10
ViroBono said:
...and others don't seem to understand what 'Current Affairs' is all about.
VB agreed sentiments, as usual you are Mister Sensible :lol:
Methinks some folk are taking the serious bits on ARRSE a little TOO UN-SERIOUS and and the funny bits on ARRSE a little TOO SERIOUS but to each his own thoughts on that one.
Leave the mods to make the decisions on what is suitable for their forums and what is not.
So many members now, it is impossible to please everyone at the same time.
Each of us who visit ARRSE for whatever our reasons, enjoy it. Those who don't enjoy the site are not forced to view it.
Current affairs is more serious than the NAAFI side threads to ARRSE and as such, I rarely post on it cos I'm a Mrs Thicky. But it doesnt stop me reading and having an interest in it.
 
#11
I have no doubt that HB has a bedroom festooned with lots of red and black flags, and a wardrobe full of brownshirts. But, as that is his bedroom, that is his right. His head is equally full of opinions that a lot of people, myself included, no doubt find offensive, but again, it's his head and he can, I'm afraid, think what he likes.

When it comes to posting on Arrse, the site has rules, and as far as I can see, he hasn't broken those rules. I'm sure that he isn't saying anything obviously racist purely because he is careful not to get banned and his posts deleted, but in as much as he is playing by the rules, what right do others have to seek his removal just because they disagree with his (probable) viewpoint? That would be truly totalitarian.
 
#12
To be honest, although I find Herrenbloke's rantings bizarre at best, and downright frightening at worst, he has the right to say it- and we have the right to call it BS. I find the fact that he normally gets short shrift from other posters rather encouraging. It serves somewhat as a reminder to those (journos, 18yr old pseudo-Marxist sociology students, the PC Police etc.) that the British Army and the rest of HMF are not a bunch of neo-Nazi extremists.

I'd wager his presence here has been a good case study for the likes of Frenchperson to see the difference between someone who is merely conservative in their views and someone who is a reactionary fruitcake. Knee-jerk lefties can seldom distinguish between the two.
 
#13
I've been attempting for some time to express more or less exactly what AWOL has so eloquently done.

'Nuff said.
 
#14
I fail to see what this thread has to do with current affairs, news or analysis. Herrenbloke wind your neck in, your posting does little more than convince others you are a troll and serves no purpose other than to publically instigate an argument on what is a private matter between you and Tricam. Keep it to PM's and stop using a serious board for petty crap that a school boy could handle better.
 
#15
Tigerbaby: Why a "troll"? Just because he has views which aren't "slightly right" or "slightly left" of centre and some may find his views inflammatory, are we not adults with our own views and (varying) debating skills with which to tackle any view we take issue with?

Good post, Awol. :D
 
#16
Dozy I'm not refering to his opinions, I 100% agree that everyone has a right to an opinion. But this thread is a direct attempt to start an argument with another arrser. In my books that's trollish, it contributes nothing to arrse, or anyone reading it.
 
#17
Yes and no. I think that PMs should remain private as a rule, but there are always exceptions. I have a rapport with both Tricam and Herrenbloke and am educated / entertained by their posts and points of view, but I don't think that it was Tricam's place to ask for a gagging order for Herrenbloke. If the Mods and / or Admin were concerned, then they have both power and authority on this site. I'm not a fan of what I consider wishy-washy liberal commentary and opinion, but I read it because it occasionally makes me challenge my own views though if I find someone OTT in anyway I either ignore or skim-read their contributions.
 
#18
A few things from me:

1. Thread moved to a more appropriate board. I'm also highly tempted to give it a more appropriate name!

2. Whilst I personally find the majority of Herrenbloke's posts pretty offensive my liberal tendencies also make me keen to defend his right to say them. I'd be very grateful however if he, and other like minded souls, would reduce their frequency somewhat. The supreme irony of those holding far right (or far left for that matter) views accusing others of failing to allow free speech is not lost on me however .......

3. The final point is to state that any breach of site rules particularly with regards to racism will be dealt with harshly. All concerned should probably bear that in mind.
 
#19
Awol/Crabtastic/Biscuits_Brown - I'm not arguing for a banning (not that it would be up to me anyway). As I mentioned in my original pm 'I do like to hear Herrenbloke's view occasionally'. I do disagree with most of his views but I'm NOT saying he shouldn't be allowed post. I'm just arguing against his relentless posting on the same issue and suggesting that maybe the mods/cos can do something about it. In fact I'd say his relentless posting is a completely new problem on arrse - one perhaps the existing rules are not capable of dealing with. There have been borderline-BNPers before but none as relentless as him. Of course then the problem is how to define 'relentless posting'? Well I don't know but I can guarantee you he exceeds it!

As OOTS said if he were like this in the pub then other people would try to avoid him and another of his 2-hour rants. Extending the analogy, I think eventually the barman would approach him and ask him to just calm it down a bit as its annoying everyone else.



Incidently, someone else pm'ed me and in amongst all whinging civvy c*unt stuff he said if I don't like herrenbloke's post then why don't I leave arrse. Well as far I know arrse is run as a benevolent dictatorship and the dictators are open to suggestions/ideas/complaints (in fact there's a whole forum for them). If the mods/co's decide I'm talking rubbish then that's fine I'll continue to post on arrse and no harm done. I'm just raising an issue...

Tricam.

Tigerbaby - I don't particularly mind Herrenbloke printing my pm (would prefer without names but doesn't really matter). Maybe people feel there is no problem with Herrenbloke continuing as before??? Grand.
 
#20
Awol said:
I have no doubt that HB has a bedroom festooned with lots of red and black flags, and a wardrobe full of brownshirts. But, as that is his bedroom, that is his right. His head is equally full of opinions that a lot of people, myself included, no doubt find offensive, but again, it's his head and he can, I'm afraid, think what he likes.

When it comes to posting on Arrse, the site has rules, and as far as I can see, he hasn't broken those rules. I'm sure that he isn't saying anything obviously racist purely because he is careful not to get banned and his posts deleted, but in as much as he is playing by the rules, what right do others have to seek his removal just because they disagree with his (probable) viewpoint? That would be truly totalitarian.
wish i was as eloq....elleqa......elokoq......could talk this good eh?
 

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