The Covenant

#1
The news of the cuts to the TA are not without warning but are without precedent. To switch off (in effect) a volunteer based organisation in such a cack handed (to quote the Duke) manner with total disregard for the loyalty and commitment demonstrated by those proud to be called 'twice a citizen' is beyond comprehension - an act of arrogant ignorance by the MOD and the Government.

However, wherefore the covenant?

'The Military Covenant is the mutual obligation between the Nation, the Army and each individual soldier; an unbreakable common bond of identity, loyalty and responsibility which has sustained the Army throughout its history.

Soldiers will be called upon to make personal sacrifices - including the ultimate sacrifice - in the service of the Nation. In putting the needs of the Nation and the Army before their own, they forego some of the rights enjoyed by those outside the Armed Forces. In return, British soldiers must always be able to expect fair treatment, to be valued and respected as individuals, and that they (and their families) will be sustained and rewarded by commensurate terms and conditions of service.

In the same way the unique nature of military land operations means that the Army differs from all other institutions, and must be sustained and provided for accordingly by the Nation. This mutual obligation forms the Military Covenant between the Nation, the Army and each individual soldier; an unbreakable common bond of identity, loyalty and responsibility which has sustained the Army throughout its history.

It has perhaps its greatest manifestation in the annual commemoration of Armistice Day, when the Nation keeps covenant with those who have made the ultimate sacrifice, giving their lives in action.'


They have opened Pandora's box.

I for one will do no training under C1.
 
#2
Wingletang said:
I for one will do no training under C1.
I will do no mil training or courses under C1. And I am going to have to be very careful considering what effort I put in to staff work.

If there is suitable AT, then I would consider it. But there's no T&S budget so my feelings on the matter are completely unimportant!

However, I will do my Remembrance Day preps and parade - this isn't something I do for the "TA" anyway (but then I've never claimed MTDs for that even when times were less drastic.)
 
#3
Ah, that will be the Regular Army Covenant, not the TA one. One Army my arrse.

I would wait out until Monday to see what the real story is as this is a rumour site.



Stilts
 
#4
STILTS said:
Ah, that will be the Regular Army Covenant, not the TA one. One Army my arrse.

I would wait out until Monday to see what the real story is as this is a rumour site.



Stilts
Speaks volumes about the MOD and the Army Chain of Command that if this is bollox they haven't stamped out the rumour by now. First rule of rumour management - stop them as quickly, openly and agressively as possible.

Unless they are true, that is.
 
#5
Idrach said:
However, I will do my Remembrance Day preps and parade - this isn't something I do for the "TA" anyway (but then I've never claimed MTDs for that even when times were less drastic.)
I'd hope every TA soldier does this but not for any point scoring.

I think that means attending without a uniform, irrespective of C1 or not.

No uniform = no press photo's = respect for others.

Humility
 
#6
polar said:
I think that means attending without a uniform, irrespective of C1 or not.

No uniform = no press photo's = respect for others.
Hmm, without wishing to divert the thread, I reckon I'd look a complete cnut as Parade Commander in a smart lounge suit!
 
#7
Wingletang said:
The news of the cuts to the TA are not without warning but are without precedent. To switch off (in effect) a volunteer based organisation in such a cack handed (to quote the Duke) manner with total disregard for the loyalty and commitment demonstrated by those proud to be called 'twice a citizen' is beyond comprehension - an act of arrogant ignorance by the MOD and the Government.

However, wherefore the covenant?

'The Military Covenant is the mutual obligation between the Nation, the Army and each individual soldier; an unbreakable common bond of identity, loyalty and responsibility which has sustained the Army throughout its history.

Soldiers will be called upon to make personal sacrifices - including the ultimate sacrifice - in the service of the Nation. In putting the needs of the Nation and the Army before their own, they forego some of the rights enjoyed by those outside the Armed Forces. In return, British soldiers must always be able to expect fair treatment, to be valued and respected as individuals, and that they (and their families) will be sustained and rewarded by commensurate terms and conditions of service.

In the same way the unique nature of military land operations means that the Army differs from all other institutions, and must be sustained and provided for accordingly by the Nation. This mutual obligation forms the Military Covenant between the Nation, the Army and each individual soldier; an unbreakable common bond of identity, loyalty and responsibility which has sustained the Army throughout its history.

It has perhaps its greatest manifestation in the annual commemoration of Armistice Day, when the Nation keeps covenant with those who have made the ultimate sacrifice, giving their lives in action.'


They have opened Pandora's box.

I for one will do no training under C1.
Well said Wingletang.

The next government (let's assume under Cameron) is going to have to work hard to rebuild the covenant. Under this administration, the covenant currently is in near tatters.

If, this thread / story is correct, then I hope that Bob Ainsworth is willing to comment specifically on the impact of this story to the nation's covenant.
 

Auld-Yin

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#8
Idrach said:
polar said:
I think that means attending without a uniform, irrespective of C1 or not.

No uniform = no press photo's = respect for others.
Hmm, without wishing to divert the thread, I reckon I'd look a complete cnut as Parade Commander in a smart lounge suit!
Briefly continuing on your point Idrach - you may indeed look a complete cnut if your are Parade Commander, in finest Service Dress and your parade are in blazers,berets & medals ? Stand out a bit wouldn't you?
 

Auld-Yin

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#9
Wingletang

You have to give the government one point - they know they have failed to honour the Covenant so they are getting rid of that obligation :x
 
#10
Auld-Yin said:
you may indeed look a complete cnut if your are Parade Commander, in finest Service Dress and your parade are in blazers,berets & medals ? Stand out a bit wouldn't you?
:lol: It's not as if I need that much help. :crying:
 
#11
One view from some of my bods - "feck HERRICK, if the army will not support the TA then why should I support them?"

A view which needs managed but it is already out there.
 
#12
No one should do C1 training. That is like saying that the Regs / NRPS / Civvies all deserve paying for their work, but TA do not.

These cuts are ridiculous. The TA offers excellent value for money at a fraction of the cost of the Regs. They go off to where they're sent with much less training and experience than the Regs, and yet do the same job. And without the many benefits that go with being a Reg. TA pension? Ha ha ha!

The TA should be increased.

As to cuts... How about the computer contract, where we have just had ONE laser printer installed (we had already bought it) for £800? Or the civvy who chose to take a job that requires a daily round trip of 80 miles from her home, yet gets paid travelling expenses by the MOD? Or the yuppie flats that the MOD rents for the Regs because there is no service housing in the area?

At our Unit the Regs (7) / NRPS (3) / Civvies (3) cost an annual salary bill of about £500,000. So if we don't train for 6 months, what are they going to do? Click our fingers and send them off on Herrick?

We have been without an AO for almost 12 months - have we noticed? No, because the TA makes up the difference, working less hours to do the same amount of work at a lower cost.
 
#13
The covenant has been broken.

The recovery of trust in the system, the MOD, the hierarchy of the TA and the Regular Army, and perception of value and importance may be irrecoverably damaged.

Much hard work now needs to be completed in order to avoid meltdown. If what I am hearing is true, and indeed, we should perhaps await the formal notification (great communication plan Army - not), we will have TA soldiers returning from Ops to empty TACs and no prospect of training for 5 months.

We will have Phase 1 recruits with no prospect of continuation training, once returned to their units, for five months and with empty TACs on drill nights during their training - great bonding!

We will have skill fade of significant proportionbut above all,

We will have soldiers and personnel who the TA values, but who are clearly considered both dispensible and supernumerary by the Regular Army, and who will inevitably lose faith in the CofC.

We will have senior officers, who were not consulted and who will feel left out and embarrassed.

We will have a recruiting problem for years, when one didn't exist.

and

..the budget will now never recover to it's former levels - once taken, never recovered.

These actions bring abject shame on the senior echelons of the British Army who have failed in their duty to plan properly, consult widely, manage budgets adequately, or apply control and good husbandry to the resources under their control. Their pathological obsession with 'Ops' has clouded their judgement, disabled their ability to take a long term or wider view, and belittles their authority. They should hang their heads in shame and I for one am prepared to look them in the eye and say, 'you have failed me'
 
#14
I served for six years in the army back in the 80's never once heard the word 'Covenant' - sound to be political spin created by Blair and his cronies to suggest there is some magical link with the Forces and they will look after their troops both servering and veterans - rubbish all of it !!
 
#15
MrTracey said:
The covenant has been broken.

The recovery of trust in the system, the MOD, the hierarchy of the TA and the Regular Army, and perception of value and importance may be irrecoverably damaged.

Much hard work now needs to be completed in order to avoid meltdown. If what I am hearing is true, and indeed, we should perhaps await the formal notification (great communication plan Army - not), we will have TA soldiers returning from Ops to empty TACs and no prospect of training for 5 months.

We will have Phase 1 recruits with no prospect of continuation training, once returned to their units, for five months and with empty TACs on drill nights during their training - great bonding!

We will have skill fade of significant proportionbut above all,

We will have soldiers and personnel who the TA values, but who are clearly considered both dispensible and supernumerary by the Regular Army, and who will inevitably lose faith in the CofC.

We will have senior officers, who were not consulted and who will feel left out and embarrassed.

We will have a recruiting problem for years, when one didn't exist.

and

..the budget will now never recover to it's former levels - once taken, never recovered.

These actions bring abject shame on the senior echelons of the British Army who have failed in their duty to plan properly, consult widely, manage budgets adequately, or apply control and good husbandry to the resources under their control. Their pathological obsession with 'Ops' has clouded their judgement, disabled their ability to take a long term or wider view, and belittles their authority. They should hang their heads in shame and I for one am prepared to look them in the eye and say, 'you have failed me'
An excellent post.

Put words to my thoughts.
 
#16
MrTracey said:
These actions bring abject shame on the senior echelons of the British Army who have failed in their duty to plan properly, consult widely, manage budgets adequately, or apply control and good husbandry to the resources under their control. Their pathological obsession with 'Ops' has clouded their judgement, disabled their ability to take a long term or wider view, and belittles their authority. They should hang their heads in shame and I for one am prepared to look them in the eye and say, 'you have failed me'
Where are the journos when you need them ? Come on Telegraph - put this on your front page. It can't take too many braincells to work out what a monumental screw up, abdication of moral responsibility and sign of utter incompetence this cut is. Even if it is not true that the story has run for three days without any official word down the Chain of Command shows just how hopeless and broken the senior echelons of the Army are. If that's not a story on its' own then I don't know what is.
 
#17
Idrach said:
However, I will do my Remembrance Day preps and parade - this isn't something I do for the "TA" anyway (but then I've never claimed MTDs for that even when times were less drastic.)
May be (or probably) wrong but is there not something in TA Regs that says pay is not admissable for drill and ceremonial (inc sreeet lining and such like) unless Royalty is present or represented? I have no doubt however that most units have in the past interpreted this liberally.
 
#18
dergeneral said:
MrTracey said:
These actions bring abject shame on the senior echelons of the British Army who have failed in their duty to plan properly, consult widely, manage budgets adequately, or apply control and good husbandry to the resources under their control. Their pathological obsession with 'Ops' has clouded their judgement, disabled their ability to take a long term or wider view, and belittles their authority. They should hang their heads in shame and I for one am prepared to look them in the eye and say, 'you have failed me'
Where are the journos when you need them ? Come on Telegraph - put this on your front page. It can't take too many braincells to work out what a monumental screw up, abdication of moral responsibility and sign of utter incompetence this cut is. Even if it is not true that the story has run for three days without any official word down the Chain of Command shows just how hopeless and broken the senior echelons of the Army are. If that's not a story on its' own then I don't know what is.
and again! Dergeneral, I am in your debt.

I cannot hope to match such words but it is a signal failure of the government and the Army that it has come to this. I am being told that the main reason this has happened is that it won't impact on Herrick for a few years thus they have time to recover. Nice isn't it that 100 years of history comes down to the requirement to fill 500 LSNs, by volunteers loyal and true, each six months just to prop up the regular force.

What about CE?

the firm base?

Employer Support? now that IS a waste of money,

OTCs

Cadets?

RNVR?

RAFVR?

So many questions, so few answers.
 
#19
Hyperion said:
dergeneral said:
MrTracey said:
These actions bring abject shame on the senior echelons of the British Army who have failed in their duty to plan properly, consult widely, manage budgets adequately, or apply control and good husbandry to the resources under their control. Their pathological obsession with 'Ops' has clouded their judgement, disabled their ability to take a long term or wider view, and belittles their authority. They should hang their heads in shame and I for one am prepared to look them in the eye and say, 'you have failed me'
Where are the journos when you need them ? Come on Telegraph - put this on your front page. It can't take too many braincells to work out what a monumental screw up, abdication of moral responsibility and sign of utter incompetence this cut is. Even if it is not true that the story has run for three days without any official word down the Chain of Command shows just how hopeless and broken the senior echelons of the Army are. If that's not a story on its' own then I don't know what is.
and again! Dergeneral, I am in your debt.

I cannot hope to match such words but it is a signal failure of the government and the Army that it has come to this. I am being told that the main reason this has happened is that it won't impact on Herrick for a few years thus they have time to recover. Nice isn't it that 100 years of history comes down to the requirement to fill 500 LSNs, by volunteers loyal and true, each six months just to prop up the regular force.

What about CE?

the firm base?

Employer Support? now that IS a waste of money,

OTCs

Cadets?

RNVR?

RAFVR?

So many questions, so few answers.
and wherefore the RFCAs? The original guardians of the TA and Haldanes protectors in the shires.

They may yet have the last laugh.
 
#20
Idrach said:
polar said:
I think that means attending without a uniform, irrespective of C1 or not.

No uniform = no press photo's = respect for others.
Hmm, without wishing to divert the thread, I reckon I'd look a complete cnut as Parade Commander in a smart lounge suit!
Forgive my lack of class, but why would you dress as a sofa......
 

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