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The Cost of an ND

#1
From Today's NZ Herald:
$1600 fine for Navy captain
29.03.06 7.00am
A Royal New Zealand Navy captain was fined $1600 at a court-martial at Trentham Military Camp yesterday for accidentally firing his rifle during a training drill in Afghanistan last month.
Gordon Ross Smith, 48, pleaded guilty to prejudicing service discipline after accidentally firing his Steyr rifle into the ground several metres in front of him.
What would the approximate cost be here ($NZ1600 is about £600)?
What does it say about arming senior officers?
Where was his 'bearer' who should have been carrying it for him?
If you shout "BANG" (a la current OTC/ACF SOPs due to munitions shortages) at an inappropriate time, is that still classed as an ND?

(Shamelessly piked from PPRUNE!)
 
#3
SO3Paperclips said:
A captain on TELIC got done for 21 days pay, which worked out to GBP1932. Steep.
LANDSO 1st offence recommendation for a soldier is 14 days pay - 21 days for a captain is pretty mild in comparison.
 
#6
stickybomb said:
IIRC 1 RGJ were being fined a month's pay for an ND committed during pre-NI trg at Lydd & Hythe ranges in 99.
We were also threatened with the same with 1RRW in Kosovo in 2000. IIRC, it was the same punishment for losing a round.
 
#7
I never quite worked out how people had ND's - stick to the drills and no problems. "Lost" a round in 1989 (in barracks) and got a £60.00 fine - it was in NI so I thought it was quite a reasonable punishment.
 
#8
dpcw said:
I never quite worked out how people had ND's - stick to the drills and no problems. "Lost" a round in 1989 (in barracks) and got a £60.00 fine - it was in NI so I thought it was quite a reasonable punishment.
Slightly off topic, but following on from above... A chap lost a round in Bosnia and became instantly unpopular as the rest of the platoon spent the next two days searching for the sodding thing. Ended up being 'found' by a sympathetic monkey. After that everyone wised up and liberated a few spares from the next range day.
 
#9
Social_Handgrenade said:
dpcw said:
I never quite worked out how people had ND's - stick to the drills and no problems. "Lost" a round in 1989 (in barracks) and got a £60.00 fine - it was in NI so I thought it was quite a reasonable punishment.
Slightly off topic, but following on from above... A chap lost a round in Bosnia and became instantly unpopular as the rest of the platoon spent the next two days searching for the sodding thing. Ended up being 'found' by a sympathetic monkey. After that everyone wised up and liberated a few spares from the next range day.
That can end up being even more expensive.

If you happen to have a Q bloke who is a total **** retentive type and checks the batch number on the bottom of the rounds......

Gets all heated and loud and the beer tokens seem to run out quickly the next month.

Not that I have any personal experience of this you understand. Just something I heard from someone somewhere once...ummm
 
#10
On my Telic the going rate for an ND was one month's pay, a lost round wa sminimum 10 days pay. Duty rumour at the time was that a couple of majors at Brigade had NDs and got stung the full amount.
 
#13
Social_Handgrenade said:
dpcw said:
I never quite worked out how people had ND's - stick to the drills and no problems. "Lost" a round in 1989 (in barracks) and got a £60.00 fine - it was in NI so I thought it was quite a reasonable punishment.
Slightly off topic, but following on from above... A chap lost a round in Bosnia and became instantly unpopular as the rest of the platoon spent the next two days searching for the sodding thing. Ended up being 'found' by a sympathetic monkey. After that everyone wised up and liberated a few spares from the next range day.
Mixing operational ammo and training ammo - very wise, well done.
 
#15
msr said:
barbs said:
Mixing operational ammo and training ammo - very wise, well done.
That's what you get for putting a ridiculous fine in place for losing a round.

msr
It is ludicrous that avoidance of one 'offence' should spawn another, potentially worse offence! It reminds me of the gunner subbie who got back into camp in NI and after conducting his checks discovered he was down 8 magazines, 4 rifles and 1 PRR. It would have helped if he'd counted the soldiers on to the ac at the PUP...
 
#16
What's even better is when the training ammo and op ammo are the same batch number, as happened to us on Telic. And the CSM wondered why we were over 3000 rds up at the end of the tour!
 
#17
A few years back - in a previous unit - a Guard Commander got stung about £800 as one of the guys stagging on had an ND yet the idiot himself only got fined around £600.

The absolute classic was some Rupert coming back from Bosnia tried to bring back a live mine (taped to his leg if memory serves me correctly). He got some pittance of a fine and promoted 8O 8O

EDIT: Oops! wrong theatre
 
#18
1983 in the Falklands. One of Our Battalions Ruperts put an L2 grenade into a dead cow. The result a great photograph of him being treated for shrapnel wounds in the Regimental magazine. The end to a not very distiguished career. Moral = if the Boys know not to f*** with a 168 grams of rdx then neither should Ruperts
 
#19
Northern Ireland 1973 and one lad in my battery had an ND and got 28 days detention, a Clerk from HQ battery had an ND in the front of the "civiliansed" van and blew out one of the front tyres, he got a fine, I forget how much but not a lot and I still wonder who was screwing him!
The 2IC of the regiment had an ND whilst unloading in the docks and didn't tell anyone! Pretty bloody silly as about half a dozen lads saw it happen, when the mutterings got load enough and back to the RSM he mentioned it to the CO and said officer "fined" himself.
It's no wonder that I left the regiment shortly afterwards for a career in civvy street.
 

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