The Corps ASM, time for a change?

Discussion in 'REME' started by DEME-eh?, Mar 12, 2009.

  1. has already been selected to become an LE officer?

  2. is a committed ASM (Artificer or Artisan) on a VEng Full Career


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  1. I am sure that everyone will agree that the decision to change the Corps RSM to a Corps ASM was without doubt an inspired one. After all, why should a technical Corps have a non-technical tradesman as the figure head of the Other Ranks.

    The system has now been in place a few years and we have had a variety of incumbents, but I am sure that a few of you will have spotted an ongoing flaw in the appointment process, have you?

    The Corps ASM is selected from a short-list of suitable candidates identified during the LE Commissioning process and, in the end, the decision is made by the current DEME(A); he must choose someone who has already been chosen to become an officer!

    Does anyone truly believe that such an individual is best placed to represent the Other Ranks of the Corps? Can you honestly trust such an individual to raise contentious issues with the Officers of the Corps on your behalf?

    What is the alternative I hear you ask?

    The Corps has now made a firm commitment to the Versatile Engagement (VEng). All junior members of the Corps are on VEng and many more senior members have been converted to VEng as a result of the VEng Boards. VEng therefore gives some members of the Corps, the opportunity to continue in a full career as a WO1 (ASM), without accepting a commission. Would a full career ASM, who will not receive further promotion, not be a better representative of the Other Ranks of the Corps?

    Now I am not for one minute suggesting that we have an X-Factor style phone-in to vote for the next ASM, however as MCM Div now conduct an annual assignments plot for WO1's, potential candidates could be identified using this process and then approached to gauge their interest; a final short-list of interested candidates could then be interviewed. A condition of acceptance would have to be that the individual accepts full career continuance, whilst not applying for a commission during their 2-3 year tenure as Corps ASM.

    A final benefit of this process would be the opportunity for the position of Corps ASM to be filled by a suitable Artisan.

    Gentlemen, I leave it to your vote and discussion.
  2. I don't see why an ASM who is interested in being Corps ASM should not be able to follow the commissioning path :? That said I see no reason why the Corps ASM post cannot be VEng either.

    Surely the first part in any appointment selection process should be a sift that is based on the SJAR and assignment preference of those WO1's eligible, the boss could then interview the top 5.

    Corps ASM is not a crowd pleasing job and takes a certain type of person to fill it well. With my penchant for "telling it like it is up & down the CoC" I would never have been suitable :D
  4. I must confess that I was less than impressed with the Corps ASM during Telic 7 - he came across as very much a 'yes' man, it was also well known that he was to commission on completion of his tour as Corps ASM.

    He annoyed the fcuk out of me when he suggested that the LAD shouldn't be doing duties on Op tours - but it was OK for the QM, QM(T) and HQ staff to do them. Clearly a man who knew lots about 1st line units.

    As DEME(A) chooses the Corps ASM, I think you will always have someone who is going to toe the line, it would be dumb (and wrong!) of DEME(A) to pick a rowdy rebel..
  5. its not broken so dont mess with it!!!
  6. Here is the news.
    1. Corps ASM is a Yes Man position. You dont bite the hand that feeds you.
    You may be a good bloke but hey thats gone now. Get ready to go from the top of the tree though to being some random Capt in the Mess that didnt do Shriv Div or Welbeck. Being that Capt who as Corps ASM done this, this and that for the lads will not get you nearer the bar or get you a better croquet partner at Hazebrouck.

    2. VEng has been designed, not to give you an extra couple of years 'cos you're a good bloke. Its numbers pure and simple. If you have taken it after already having had your time and reached your ceiling are you jacking on those behind you? If this would have happened six years ago would you have left at the Rank you are now? Pull up the ladder lads.
    (Im not saying it isnt a good tool, changing someones T&C during their tenure aint cricket, MS Binding Principle is met though!)

    3. Give the Artisan WO the chance to promote to Corps ASM, pay him low band though.

    Should have alienated a load of folk there for a good stir up post.

    .....Croquet, now? Coming ASM, sorry i cant help calling you that James.

    Yes id love to..........
  7. Not sure what you would gain from selecting a WO1 who does not aspire or is not above the quality line to make the cut as an LE officer. I think that you need someone in the post who is passionate about the Corp and has a vested interest in improving it. Selecting someone destined for commissioning means that they should have the longer term view and they will have that vested interest.

    As Nige has pointed out, DEME(A) is unlikely to select anyone for the post whom they can’t work with and therefore they will be on message
  8. Oh come on Bluebells. I am a ASM and I do not aspire to commision, plenty of others do and good luck to them, it does not mean I am no longer interested in the Corps. REME would be in a right mess if all the ASMs decided that they no longer gave a toss.

    The CASM should be the best ASM in the Corps, commision or no commision. We still have SJARs, so someone must have come first, they should get the job.
  9. I left the Corps in '95, what is an SJAR?
  10. Tytus_Barnowl

    Tytus_Barnowl On ROPs

    If anything such an appointment could be reserved for those who have already been selected for commissioning and could be invited to complete a 1 year tour in the corps top role on the soldier path prior to taking a commisioning course. A foot in both camps, a position of balanced views would perhaps bring something to the table rather than safeguarding a future opportunity or bitterly taking the also ran position.
  11. You may well have a point TB, but as Ifitwaseasy... said, not all ASM's aspire to a commission. I follow your comment "A foot in both camps, a position of balanced views would perhaps bring something to the table " but do not see where you get the "rather than safeguarding a future opportunity or bitterly taking the also ran position."

    Anyone who decides they do not want to follow the commissioning path would be deciding to leave the Corps/army, unless they are offered VEng for a couple of years to fill an important role, but would then still be leaving the Corps afterwards. What is there to be bitter about, or am I being a bit blind?
  12. Tytus_Barnowl

    Tytus_Barnowl On ROPs

    My choice of words was unguarded my apologies for misunderstanding, I am now only a civvy twat.
  13. Regardless of commissioning potential or not the CASM must be able to represent the views of the soldier and in my opinion he does. Its the best man for the job and you all must agree that ECE's fit the bill quite well. Note: that all bar one have been ECE's. Read it and weep blackhand gang!!
  14. The Corps ASM I refer to above was an ECE apparently - he didn't fit the bill......
    'Bout time we had a Metalsmith as Corps ASM if you ask me.