The Col Parker Story

Discussion in 'Professionally Qualified, RAMC and QARANC' started by bloodthirsty1, Jun 19, 2007.

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  1. Like Ventress, i know the good Col Parker very well Having served on various tours with him, the longest being 3 Months in Bosnia in the 90’s, like many of us he is very frustrated with many issues over casualty treatment, particulary as this saga has been ongoing for years,however there are a couple of key points people have missed.

    He did not speak out in the national press, but voiced his concerns in the RAMC Journal, based on his experience last year a normal forum for articles and far better than whining on “Doctors” Somebody else decided to forward this article to the Journos.

    However one of our Officers did speak to the whole world ,the Performance of the Lt General (Lillywhite) should come under scrutiny, for him to criticize a very senior Army officer in public (BBC radio and National newspaper articles) is woeful and lower than a “snakes belly” based on what was a magazine article.

    I do know this has be another embarrassment for all concerned and raise the question which of these 2 will survive the fallout ?
  2. Both, the Doctors are all bullet proof
  3. B_AND_T

    B_AND_T LE Book Reviewer

    I thought he retired after Elvis died.
  4. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    For those who prefer to rely on original sources rather than seeing the world through the ' Hurrah - let's bash someone - Trebles all round! ' smeary glasses of The Street of Shame, Col Parker's dit can be found at

    Pages 202 -211 of the Journal of RAMC, Vol 152, No4 dated December 2006.

    Their website is .

    The material , iaw DCI/Gen 200/04 , is designated Crown Copyright.

    Article is entitled:
    'Damage Control Surgery and Casualty evacuation: Techniques for Surgeons, lessons for military Medical planners '

    Interesting point from the US experience in South East Asia, citing an article published in 1973 [Mcnamara JJ, Stremple JF. )

    ' as a historical illustration, 9,000 patients were admitted to the 24th Evac hosp in Vietnam from Oct 1968 to July 1969.

    4,780 required a major surgical procedure under anaesthesia (15 per day).

    100 (2.1%) arrived in the emergency room alive with spontanaeous respiration and detectable heartbeat , but died. all of these patients arrived within 45 minutes of wounding ...........Average pre-hospital times on Op Telic 4 were 1 hour and 49 minutes.

    On Op Herrick IV, the avarage pre-hospital time was 7 hours, for the T1 sub-set this was 3 hours 9 minutes. '
    ©Crown Copyright 2006

    hmmm......I'm not sure what the current troop levels in AFG are across the multinational piece - but I'm damn sure that they are nowhere near what the U.S had committed in SE Asia at the time of the Tet offensive
    (which if memory serves was somewhere near the half million mark.)

    [ Mcnamara to Westmorland: ' General , if you can't win this war with 600,000 men what makes you think you can win with more ? ]

    Also, I guess you could add that by 1968, the US Army had been operating at low intensity in that theatre for at least six years and at high intensity ( since 1965 following the Gulf of Tonkin) for three. UKFOR have been in AFG since 2001.

    There is much else in the article of interest and in many ways it is a shame that the sensationalist press will obscure some of the messages.

    Good honk from the back of the formation in my deeply ignorant opinion.

    Once all the hysteria has died down it will be interesting to see what, if anything, changes.

    To those in theatre doing their damndest to bring people home alive -
    DETAIL!.... OFF..........CAPS....(stand still there)

    Dee Billybock
  5. I Applauded the way Paul Parker has spoken out, but i feel he has put his head above the Parapet only to have his head shot off, although i agree with what he has reportedly said, i don't think it will reverse the trend of the armed forces, to basically run down the regular army and replace it with a another cheaper option, i.e. the TA.
    The rot started when they got rid of the Military Hospitals which i feel was a bad mistake, because our service men are not getting the care that should be afforded to them, both on operations and at home. I feel that this is all down to cost cutting goverments a like.
  6. Can you please delete one half a name and incert the word 'liver' as the second half.
    I thank you.
  7. Forastero

    Forastero LE Moderator

    Lillywhite is a charming fellow, isn't he? Him and the DG could barely look each other in the eye at the AMS Athletics meet. Very reassuring!
  8. I know that you can't argue with statistics, but having recently come back from Herrick and being based at the Hosp in Bastion, the reality doesn't really reflect the stats. The IRT based there always seemed to be away in minutes few and I can't remember one single occasion when they didn't return within the hour.

    These guys and girls are putting their own lives on the line, every day, along with the pilots and other crew. Is the danger to their lives included in the statistics?

    We must also remember that no two conflicts are the same, Afghanistan is definitely NOT Vietnam. We draw comparisons but don't discuss the huge differences in technology, terrain etc.
  9. Muckster makes some good points, I cant understand where they get the 7 hours from as an average.... Maybe in the odd extreme example it has taken 7 hours due to a particularly fierce firefight on the ground.
    We (As in the deployed forces) pride ourselves on doing all we can to get the seriously wounded out as fast as possible, including taking risks at times which would normally get us a slapping.

    One thing I havent seen mentioned in this whole Col Parker debacle, is that he has been hung out to dry on his article published in the Journal for the Royal Army Medical Corps. I could have sworn that this was edited and ran by the AMS and is therefore a military publication with "approved" articles published.

    Shouldnt it be the editing team that is being publically slapped by Gen LillyWhite and not the author? The whole point of these articles is to stimulate informed debate (Which it has obviously succeeded at).

    knowing the way these things work, I am sure that Gen Lillywhite has seen a paper by Col Parker suggesting the same requirements previously, but has just chosen to ignore them.

    After all isnt Col Parker the Defence Consultant Advisor (ie chief surgical advisor) to the Surgeon General?
  10. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    Yes. Editorial Board consist of about 10 people. Editor is a serving Lt Col (who is also a Professor of Medicine)

    There are a number of DCA's for different disciplines eg anaesthesia , transfusion, orthopaedics, hyperbaric etc.

    Don Cabra
  11. Col Parker is NOT the Defence Consultant Advisor in Orthopaedics to the SG.
  12. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    ....I am !.....I'M Spartacus !

    Cue further shouts....... :D

    There's a list of them on the DMS website for those who need to know.

    Lee Shaver
  13. Having been on the ground very recently and having evacuated casualties from 2 of the more far flung areas of Helmand, I have not known it take more than 90 mins from POW to the R2E. This is including extracting the casualties under contact. Where the 7 hours comes from, I know not. The evac chain works, and has sadly been tested too many times recently
  14. Doesn't he do that dodgy fried chicken stuff?