The Chinese - not a great bunch of lads

Not quite, the Press tend to be interested in the press and what sells. I have no interest in knocking the Chinese for the sake of it. When the Chinese have had enough of the current regime they’ll get rid of it.
Depends on the alternatives. Chinese have long memories of instability, hunger and foreign oppression. The current regime can keep all three at bay for now so change will not be entered into lightly.
 
Depends on the alternatives. Chinese have long memories of instability, hunger and foreign oppression. The current regime can keep all three at bay for now so change will not be entered into lightly.
But since we're talking of a people who had 3 (or 5, depending on your definition) revolutions in the first half of the 20th Century alone, I think it's safe to assume they're not wholly subservient to whoever happens to be in charge at any particular moment.
 
But since we're talking of a people who had 3 (or 5, depending on your definition) revolutions in the first half of the 20th Century alone, I think it's safe to assume they're not wholly subservient to whoever happens to be in charge at any particular moment.
Yes - but only one bought stability in the long term and that's the Communists. Every other one failed to deliver one one or more of the three points I listed and was crushed or swept away.
Given that each dynasty starts with absolute power at the top but ultimately fails after time, I'd expect the current lot to go for another 200 years before loosing their grip.
 

overopensights

ADC
Book Reviewer
Eh? How?

The press is generally intensely interested in anything that can be used to knock the PRC. How else do you think we ever hear about it?
I was in Yinchuan last year, I thought the Muslims there were quite accepted and treated as locals. There was special shops selling mutton, which the chinese don't seem to care for and a special Muslim holiday, which seemed to please the local Chinese, as they got a few days off too.
 
I was in Yinchuan last year, I thought the Muslims there were quite accepted and treated as locals. There was special shops selling mutton, which the chinese don't seem to care for and a special Muslim holiday, which seemed to please the local Chinese, as they got a few days off too.
Ningxia's a Hui-heavy area, as is next-door Gansu. The only religious strife there's been recently has been when ethnic-Tibetans came riding across the border during the 2008 riots.

Interestingly, the local Tibetans wanted nowt to do with them. They're primarily from the sects not automatically subordinate to Lhasa and tend to take HHDL's words as advisory rather than mandatory.
 
Now then, I knew a Malaysian chap who was ethnic Chinese and who went to China to see if any rellies survived in the PRC with another of his muckers. He asserted that they met members of the extended family ( 6th cousin seven times removed that sort of thing). The youngest female had married a Hui ( Han Chinese Muslim group ) and was permitted to have more than the one child as a result. At the time this was regarded with mixed feelings by the her "traditional" family. This I thought at variance with the popular stories going around ref the stance of the PRC attitude to Muslims.
 
Depends on the alternatives. Chinese have long memories of instability, hunger and foreign oppression. The current regime can keep all three at bay for now so change will not be entered into lightly.
And therein lies the conundrum, but as a rule of thumb governments like to keep the populace relatively occupied, well off. Idleness breeds disaffection. But then these things are all relative
But since we're talking of a people who had 3 (or 5, depending on your definition) revolutions in the first half of the 20th Century alone, I think it's safe to assume they're not wholly subservient to whoever happens to be in charge at any particular moment.
from my dads own description , he served there between 1928-32 in the Shanghai protectorate, they were not subservient, they merely understood the concept of consequences. They, according to him, were not in the least concerned by who was getting beaten up, as long as they were left alone
 

overopensights

ADC
Book Reviewer
And therein lies the conundrum, but as a rule of thumb governments like to keep the populace relatively occupied, well off. Idleness breeds disaffection. But then these things are all relative

from my dads own description , he served there between 1928-32 in the Shanghai protectorate, they were not subservient, they merely understood the concept of consequences. They, according to him, were not in the least concerned by who was getting beaten up, as long as they were left alone
A few years earlier just after midnight on the very early morning of 5th August 1914, In Tsingdao or Qindao as is now called, there were two adjacent barracks one housed the 24th Regt, British, and the other a German Bn, The British Bn received a signal from India that war had started. The Germans were still abed schlafen. The Brits marched down the road and put the lot into the bag for five years! Comms is everything!!
The Germans had a brewery in the town it produced a very good bier, Qindao Bier, good stuff and still going strong. Two bottles of that and you lose control of your lower jaw!
 
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A few years earlier just after midnight on the very early morning of 5th August 1914, In Tsingdao or Qindao as is now called, there were two adjacent barracks one housed the 24th Regt, British, and the other a German Bn, The British Bn received a signal from India that war had started. The Germans were still abed schlafen. The Brits marched down the road and put the lot into the bag for five years! Comms is everything!!
The Germans had a brewery in the town it produced a very good bier, Qindao Bier, good stuff and still going strong. Two bottles of that and you lose control of your lower jaw!
I have a couple of Photos taken by Dad of a Japanese Destroyer in Shanghai harbour as they had a Cantoonment in the international protectorate at the time. Perhaps you know this but the very first protest against Japanese attrocities came from the German attaché . Dad was doing the convoy runs from S to Peking before leaving in 1933.
 
Perhaps you know this but the very first protest against Japanese attrocities came from the German attaché
I'm pretty sure it came from the Chinese government...
 
Yes - but only one bought stability in the long term and that's the Communists. Every other one failed to deliver one one or more of the three points I listed and was crushed or swept away.
Given that each dynasty starts with absolute power at the top but ultimately fails after time, I'd expect the current lot to go for another 200 years before loosing their grip.
I'd say the communists didn't really deliver either, with many deaths due to starvation and other causes. It's just that they recruited and paid off the right people (nasty bastards) to ensure a grip on power and kept the masses weak, compliant/indoctrinated (invent an enemy and keep their focus there) , and uncertain to maintain it.
 
I'd say the communists didn't really deliver either, with many deaths due to starvation and other causes.
They genuinely did, though. To put it into context, China's historically had at least one major famine (deaths circa 1-5m) every decade, so far as the historical record shows. Major famines (5-10m+) were around every 10-15 years.

The founding of the PRC came at the end of a period where mass deaths were a constant companion, whether it be civil war (Taiping and Nian rebellions), intra-fraction wars (the Central Plains War killed about 1/4m combatants and 1/2m civvies directly) or famine (the North China Famine 1928-30 killed 3m).

I wouldn't take the CCP's unsupported word for anything, but the independently-verified population distribution shows that deaths and 'missing' births decreased dramatically since 1950, with the major exception of the GLF and the megadeath/fertility decrease that brought.

This is because, generally, the CCP has been extremely good at re-establishing the traditional public aid systems, and at mobilising resources to support them across provincial borders. We just haven't seen the traditional pattern of famine that beset the Empire and early Republic.
 
It hasn't made the world media much until the past couple of days, but South and Central China are currently underwater.
They have had torrential rain since June, and there is major flooding along the Yangtze, which has forced them to open the giant Three Gorges dam.
 
It hasn't made the world media much until the past couple of days, but South and Central China are currently underwater.
They have had torrential rain since June, and there is major flooding along the Yangtze, which has forced them to open the giant Three Gorges dam.
makes my point precisely. with the reportage coming in we only know what's happening in part in Hong Kong, but perhaps the Chinese Government is strangely muted about other matters
I'm pretty sure it came from the Chinese government...
Like I said I'm not picking a fight, the Chinese Government in those days but the chinese Government was in flux. I think the name of the individual was Oscar Trautman
 

endure

GCM
It hasn't made the world media much until the past couple of days, but South and Central China are currently underwater.
They have had torrential rain since June, and there is major flooding along the Yangtze, which has forced them to open the giant Three Gorges dam.

It's on the Beeb

 
They genuinely did, though. To put it into context, China's historically had at least one major famine (deaths circa 1-5m) every decade, so far as the historical record shows. Major famines (5-10m+) were around every 10-15 years.

The founding of the PRC came at the end of a period where mass deaths were a constant companion, whether it be civil war (Taiping and Nian rebellions), intra-fraction wars (the Central Plains War killed about 1/4m combatants and 1/2m civvies directly) or famine (the North China Famine 1928-30 killed 3m).

I wouldn't take the CCP's unsupported word for anything, but the independently-verified population distribution shows that deaths and 'missing' births decreased dramatically since 1950, with the major exception of the GLF and the megadeath/fertility decrease that brought.

This is because, generally, the CCP has been extremely good at re-establishing the traditional public aid systems, and at mobilising resources to support them across provincial borders. We just haven't seen the traditional pattern of famine that beset the Empire and early Republic.
China was in a good place to benefit from the 1970s Green Revolution.
New High yield rice and wheat varieties, increased industrialisation in farms, cheap fertilisers and above all the ability to set up land holdings for efficient mechanisation without having to worry about annoying landowners rights.
The draw back is that they have badly degraded soil and water, and they are reaching the upper edges of what can be squeezed out of the land they have.
This explains why they have been buying up large chunks of Africa and South America to repeat the process there.
 
China was in a good place to benefit from the 1970s Green Revolution.
New High yield rice and wheat varieties, increased industrialisation in farms, cheap fertilisers and above all the ability to set up land holdings for efficient mechanisation without having to worry about annoying landowners rights.
The problem was that landowner's rights were what got the CCP into power in the first place and they tamper with them at their peril.

Even now, taking away people's ability to feed themselves if push comes is a thorny issue which causes a lot of strife. Back then, especially in the midst of the Cultural Revolution, it would have been impossible.
 

offog

LE
China was in a good place to benefit from the 1970s Green Revolution.
New High yield rice and wheat varieties, increased industrialisation in farms, cheap fertilisers and above all the ability to set up land holdings for efficient mechanisation without having to worry about annoying landowners rights.
The draw back is that they have badly degraded soil and water, and they are reaching the upper edges of what can be squeezed out of the land they have.
This explains why they have been buying up large chunks of Africa and South America to repeat the process there.
They also had very large orders with the potash mine in Yorkshire which has run out of money. It will be interesting to see who ends up with this mine once it is finally up and running.
 

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