The Chinese - not a great bunch of lads

I'm in hong-couver at the moment and the little ******* are everywhere, however as I'm over 6ft and the little cnuts are lucky to push 5ft I find they part like the red sea did for Moses when they get in my path. They bare a lot of similarities to jocks.
You awwweful wasist insulting Jimmy Crankies army.
 
You are perhaps unique in your perspective because you've served in the British army but have direct knowledge of life behind the Great 'Firewall' of China.

Most English speaking people are at the mercy of Western news as most people in the West can't speak or read Chinese. Therefore, anything you have to say on the matter probably holds more authority than anyone else on arrse.

What are the Chinese really up to? They obviously have some sort of game plan to subvert the West militarily and economically, and it seems obvious to me that we're in a new Cold War. However, this time we've got 3 super power blocks with the Russians, Chinese and USA.

AFAIK there was some sort of agreement with HK that the citizens there were to receive a more liberal status than those on the mainland. The police seem to be curbing the protestors with effective force and I hear there's a new law to arrest people for life. That seems rather harsh even by Chinese standards, but it's an improvement on Tianamen Square.

Is half the stuff we hear about China with the death vans and prison camps accurate or is it spin? Also, are you free to criticize the regime or will you get your head kicked in by the Chinese secret ninja pandas for replying to this post?

If you don't respond I'll expect the worst.
Great questions - But how do you know he is impartial?
 

How come this is OK but if I said black people were shit, I'd be for the high jump.

Again.
How fitting this comment is 4 years on with all this hypocritc BLM shit going on but then those who are not hard of thinking realise that the drivers of this outrage bus dont give a flying fuck about black people, white people chinese people and its all about thier XLM marxist agenda.
 
Ah, the new, much looked forward to, colonialism.

Wonder how that's working out for the taxi driver in Nairobi a few years ago who spent the journey frothing at me how bad the British were, and telling me he was looking forward to the Chinese arriving to right all the wrongs.
But, but, but Bobby M said that China was Zimbabwe's 'all weather friend'.
 
Published by: India TV, AP, Beijing, on 30 June 2020.

China’s position as world’s low-cost factory under threat as companies prodded to rely less.

The United States, Japan and France are prodding their companies to rely less on China to make the world’s smartphones, drugs and other products. But even after the coronavirus derailed trade, few want to leave skilled China's skilled workforce and efficient suppliers of raw materials to move to other countries.

Disruptions from the pandemic, on top of the U.S.-Chinese tariff war, fueled warnings that relying too much on China leaves global companies vulnerable to costly breakdowns in the event of disasters or political conflict.

Drug makers stand out as one industry that is trying to reduce reliance on Chinese suppliers by setting up sources of raw materials in the United States and Europe. But consumer electronics, medical devices and other industries are sticking with China.

“I don’t know of a single company right now that is moving ahead with any plans to move,” said Harley Seyedin, president of the American Chamber of Commerce in South China.

China’s explosive rise as the world’s low-cost factory helped to hold down consumer prices and boosted Western corporate profits. But it has fueled political tension over lost American and European blue collar jobs. Governments and industry consultants fret that dependence on China can be a threat to supply chains and possibly national security.

Chinese factories assemble most of the world’s smartphones and consumer electronics and a growing share of medical equipment, industrial robots and other high-tech goods. This country is a dominant supplier of vitamin C and ingredients for antibiotics and other medicines. The ruling Communist Party has spent two decades building ports, railways, telecom networks and other facilities that are regarded as among the world’s best.

“China still offers an unparalleled supply chain for any industry,” said Jit Lim of Alvarez & Marsal, a management consulting firm.

Philip Richardson, who manufactures loudspeakers in Panyu, near Hong Kong, said he has looked at Vietnam and other countries. But he said while their wages might be as low as 60% of China's, the savings will be eaten up by the cost of giving up his network of Chinese suppliers.

“We gave it consideration for about a minute, and it doesn't make sense,” said Richardson, who has worked in China for 22 years. “When you buy magnets, now you have to pay for transportation and customs duties into other countries, whereas in China we just buy the magnets and they are shipping to us.”

President Donald Trump took office in 2017 promising to “bring back our jobs.” The next year’s tariff hikes on goods from China in a fight over technology and trade prompted some exporters to shift production. But changes were small. Most went to other developing countries.

The pandemic has raised political pressure for companies to move.

The Japanese government, which sees China as a strategic rival, is offering 220 billion yen ($2 billion) to companies that move production to Japan in a virus aid package announced in April. It offers 23.5 billion yen ($220 million) for Japanese companies in China to move to other countries.

The tariff war prompted concern about China’s dominance as a supplier of active pharmaceutical ingredients, or APIs, used in antibiotics and vitamins. Some American commentators warned Beijing might retaliate by withholding APIs, though was there no sign that happened.

“There will be an increase in the repatriation of national drug supply chains and the re-establishment of national strategic manufacturing capabilities for key drugs,” Sakshi Sikka, who follows the industry for Fitch Solutions, said in an email.

In May, the U.S. government awarded a contract worth up to $812 million over 10 years to Phlow Corp., a Virginia company set up to insure against drug shortages by producing ingredients and generics.

In Europe, French drug maker Sanofi SA is setting up an API supplier to reduce reliance on China. Sanofi says the company will be the No. 2 global producer, with annual sales of 1 billion euros by 2022.

India and Indonesia have announced plans to increase their own production of pharmaceutical raw materials.

Those changes are politically driven and will push up costs, while China's dominance as a global supplier is unlikely to change in the near future, according to Fitch’s Sikka.

Companies including Nike Inc. that used to make shoes, furniture, clothes and other low-margin goods in China have been migrating for a decade to Southeast Asia, Africa and other economies in search of cheaper labor.

For higher-end shoes, however, U.S. import duties would have to rise even further before sites such as Ethiopia or Southeast Asia can compete with experienced Chinese workers and flexible suppliers, said Robert Gwynne, who produces women's shoes for brands including Steve Madden in Dongguan, near Hong Kong.

“All my clients say, we have to diversify,” said Gwynne. But when shown costs in other countries, “90% take the China scenario.”

Companies also increasingly are tied to China by the appeal of its 1.3 billion consumers at a time when the West’s spending growth is anemic.

Makers of automobiles and higher-value goods are spending billions of dollars to expand Chinese production. As the economy reopened, Volkswagen AG said in May it would spend 2 billion euros ($2.2 billion) to buy control of its Chinese electric vehicle venture and a controlling stake in a battery producer.

Instead of using China to export, “now a lot of people are producing ‘local for local,’” said Lim.

Only 11% of companies that responded to a survey by the European Union Chamber of Commerce in China said they were “considering shifting investment to other countries,” down from 15% last year.

Some are leaving to cut labor costs, but the rest "are really committed to China,” said a chamber vice president, Charlotte Roule.

Moving factories or finding non-Chinese suppliers to reduce the risk of disruption "means further investment,” Roule said. “Who is going to pay for that?”

Charles M. Hubbs, founder of Premier Guard, which makes surgical gowns, masks and other medical devices in China, said he is gearing up to produce face masks in Mississippi to avoid problems with shipping. But he said such an approach won't work once the pandemic ends and prices fall back to normal.

“You can afford it now. People are paying $12 for an isolation gown,” said Hubbs, who has worked in China since the late 1980s. “But when COVID is over, you're going to go back to $3 or $4.”

Many companies already have pursued a “China plus one” strategy in Asia over the past decade. They set up factories in Southeast Asia to serve other markets or insure against disruption in China, even if that raised their costs.

But as China lifted anti-disease controls on business in March, other Asian economies shut down, forcing companies to shift work back to Chinese factories, which are working overtime to make up the shortfall, said Seyedin.

Some U.S. and other leaders are talking about possible tax breaks or other incentives to lure companies home. Trump has threatened to raise taxes on American companies that move from China to any other country but the United States.

Even if tax breaks or subsidies go ahead, companies face the costs of setting up a factory in unfamiliar territory, training rookie employees, finding suppliers and possible disruption to customer relations, said Alvarez & Marsal’s Lim.

“Shifting is not free,” he said.

(Except the headline, IndiaTvNews.com has not edited the AP Copy)

[photo] In this April 8, 2020, photo, employees work on a car assembly line at the Dongfeng Honda Automobile Co., Ltd factory in Wuhan in central China's Hubei province. The United States, Japan and France are prodding their companies to rely less on China to make the world’s smartphones, drugs and other products. But even after the coronavirus derailed global trade, few are willing to give up access to its skilled workers, vast market and efficient suppliers by moving factories closer to home.

View attachment 486588

Most South Korean firms pulled out of China in 2017 and relocated to Vietnam without any problems when the Chinese started threatening South Korea when it paid for the Americans to station THAAD air defence missiles in Korean terriritory.

They didn't need much encouraging as a lot of Korean firms were being ripped off by the Chinese with copyright issues and theft of technology. Many have since relocated back to South Korea. Many high end Korean goods such as cosmetics which are in high demand in South East Asia are counterfeited by the Chinese with inferior goods with Korean labels passed off as genuine.

So, most people in South Korea would say : Yes the Chinese - not a great bunch of lads.
 
But, but, but Bobby M said that China was Zimbabwe's 'all weather friend'.
I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

Who'da thunk that western elevated paragon of virtue Loony Bob Mugabe could possibly tell a porky to line his pockets?
 
The two, Carmichael and Wattis are rehearsing their lines in the theatre on the top floor, the escape point from under the stage that Pat Reid and Mac McGill are about to use, in walks the big fat head of camp security, Priem, who stops and listens to this short skit, cannot understand British humour, and walks away totally dumbfounded..........

Memory jog:- In Sardinia on exercise Dawn patrol 1974, as the driver of the FFR rover, I was tasked to take a radio tech, and officer to the harbour at Porto pino, as we approached the moored yachts and cabin cruisers, I was told to give the V signal in Morse on the horn. We pulled up alongside a large yacht, the owner was pat Reid, who had heard we were on the island, and asked for assistance, as he was having trouble with his radio transceiver. I was not aware of who he was until told on the drive back to Tuleada camp.
Thanks. Next time it’s on i’ll watch out for the scene.
 
Is half the stuff we hear about China with the death vans and prison camps accurate or is it spin? Also, are you free to criticize the regime or will you get your head kicked in by the Chinese secret ninja pandas for replying to this post?
Most of what we hear is True, rather than factually accurate, in the same way an An Phoblacht headline was True to diehard republicans. The little bit that is accurate is usually taken out of context and presented in isolation. The ADIZ issue was a case in point - the PRC was the last of the East Asian nations to establish one (by some decades) and their regulations are if anything less stringent than most, but it was still presented as something exceptional. The fact was that it was only exceptional in that the PRC had never done it before, unlike each and every one of its neighbours.

As to criticism, that really depends on how you do it rather than the bald fact of doing it and the rules vary depending on circumstance. For example, a professor invited to address cadres at the Central Party School pretty much has freedom to say what he likes under Chatham House rules, provided he can back it up with data. Many of the reforms to long-cherished policies have come about through precisely this sort of external feedback. On the other hand, a local journalist looking to write an expose on local government corruption will run the risk of being invited to 'drink tea' with the consequent risk of accidentally being struck by a falling gargoyle while swimming off Beachy Head. On yet another hand, the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection (the Party's internal watchdog) has established tried and tested channels for Joe Public to report on the quiet examples of corrupt cadres. The touchstone I guess is whether criticism is of the Party in general, as opposed to specific behaviours; or whether the form of criticism poses a threat to Party rule.

'Death vans' are a thing, driven largely by how remote vast parts of China are. BBC's Storyville did an excellent four-parter called The Law of the Dragon which followed a rural judge as he tried to uphold the law, arbitrate disputes and dispense justice throughout his beat of 500,000 people spread across about 2,700 km/sq. His sole resources were his people skills, a large seal of the PRC (wherever/whenever he hung it, court was in session) and a driver on loan from the local police station - he essentially was the law, all on his ownsome. With the legal system and law enforcement spread so thinly, it's not feasible to have permanent facilities to transport the condemned to, so the mountain goes to Mohammed and shoots him in the head.

Prison camps are again a reality but one which is frequently confused in the reporting. The 'Reform Through Labour' system has been around since forever and is a traditional feature of Chinese penal systems, which includes the provision that petty recidivists can be banged up by the local cops without needing to go through a court trial, so long as the judge agrees the evidence is sound. As you can imagine, this is open to all sorts of abuse but is also responsible for keeping a lot of anti-social behaviour off the streets. The recent Uighur-related stories are pretty unclear to me, I have to say. I know that the PRC has been caught out lying on it penal system before, but I also know that the Uighur exile movements have too, including orchestrating black propaganda campaigns containing fake witnesses and with the connivance of western journalists. I don't regard it as safe to take either side's word for what's going on.

So, long story marginally less long, the PRC is rarely what common perception holds it to be. It has its own internal logic and in its international dealings generally follows a conservative path relying on other peoples' precedent to guide its way. That other countries don't like the precedent being followed is a symptom of how un-rules-based our rules-based international order actually is.
 
Most South Korean firms pulled out of China in 2017 and relocated to Vietnam without any problems when the Chinese started threatening South Korea when it paid for the Americans to station THAAD air defence missiles in Korean terriritory.
Except that the PRC is still the second largest destination for RoK FDI after the US. Total FDI inflows to PRC has increased year on year since 2016, which again makes it the world's second largest recipient.

The UNCTAD 2020 World Investment Report makes for interesting reading, particularly since it attempts to describe the effects of COVID-19 on global investment.
 
Great questions - But how do you know he is impartial?
When reporting or describing off my own back, I'm frequently critical of the PRC and CCP. When responding to uninformed or partisan criticism of these, I'll highlight the lack of knowledge and dispute the partisanship.

Only those fanatically wed to national exceptionalism mistake this for partiality.
 

overopensights

ADC
Book Reviewer
They were very well equipped, by the Soviet Union and the PRC.

They're perfectly happy to have foreigners in their backyard provided they serve a purpose.
Smart as carrots, you have to agree that they fought a very aggressive violent and basic war, no tanks, no aircraft of any sort, and no IT.
 
I can't help feel a touch of disconnect between that headline and the article.
Can:’t help but think that India and Indonesia have an easy way of expanding pharma. Sweetners of the counterfeit industry.
Most South Korean firms pulled out of China in 2017 and relocated to Vietnam without any problems when the Chinese started threatening South Korea when it paid for the Americans to station THAAD air defence missiles in Korean terriritory.

They didn't need much encouraging as a lot of Korean firms were being ripped off by the Chinese with copyright issues and theft of technology. Many have since relocated back to South Korea. Many high end Korean goods such as cosmetics which are in high demand in South East Asia are counterfeited by the Chinese with inferior goods with Korean labels passed off as genuine.

So, most people in South Korea would say : Yes the Chinese - not a great bunch of lads.
In the meantime, number 1 son is earning a tasty living in Vietnam and Cambodia-on a break and quarantined-in teaching business English with mostly American spellings but with an added twist of self deprecating English humour.
I am very reliably informed that there are some great business opportunities out there, and the VC have a great sense of humour-" Me now numbah 3, hah, them chinks numbah 10, no boom boom for them eh Mr Michael?"

It's like an episode of "Mind your language" with added monsoons apparently.
 
I've been following his channle for a couple of years and found it very interesting. For the most part he is (was) overwhelmingly positive about China, but in the past year or so had started to report on how bad things were getting (rampent nationalism, increasing suspicion of westerners, corruption etc.) which doesn't bode well.
His partner in adventure C-Milk is linked to on the YouTube page as he has just fled China and had to leave his family behind as it appears they have trumpmed up some charges against them and another guy (westerner) they teamed up with to make their travelogues with is already doing time for what appears to be 'made up sh*t'.

It is sad to see a country that was headed in the right direction now furiously backpedelling into the old communist era paranoia under a dictator for life.
It reminds me of a talk Jordan Peterson did where he compared Stalin and Hitler and their mental states in their later days. By all accounts Stalin would have ended up pressing the button to start WWIII and Hitler did a similar thing in the way they treated their minorities and undesirables.
China seems to be headed the same way with the persecution of minorities and the creation of a national paranoia.
When you have a system where everything bad that has happend to your country in the last 70 years was done by your very own government, as policy, against their own popualtion and actively denies doing it, then we have a situation that is not going to end well. For anyone.
I can't find the Peterson lecture but will post it up when I can.
 

4(T)

LE



Pretty much ditto for Russia.


IMHO its a real problem that the majority of people in liberal democracies simply cannot conceive of being in a society where there is basically no freedom at all - no impartial law, no legal rights, no democracy (as in you can vote, but the outcome was decided for you), where making yourself heard can get you "vanished", etc and so on.

In practice this means that those populations of liberal democracies naively assume that all societies are the same basic balance of good and bad, and that this means that there are two balanced sides to any comparison. Thus they accept the untruth from internal and external propaganda that their country has faults comparable to the tyranny.

Sadly, it means that liberal democratic countries are easily riven and subverted (eg BLM et al), or freedoms carelessly thrown away, or disregard and even hate imbued for the historical process by which the democracy developed, and so on.

If anyone is interested in what its like to stare into the abyss of a totalitarian state, then Bill Browder's odyssey is a very enlightening read (caveat: from the few parts of which I have personal knowledge, I'd say his account is somewhat redacted and understated):

Red Notice: How I Became Putin's No. 1 Enemy
Bill Browder
ISBN-10: 0552170321
ISBN-13: 978-0552170321
 
Pretty much ditto for Russia.


IMHO its a real problem that the majority of people in liberal democracies simply cannot conceive of being in a society where there is basically no freedom at all - no impartial law, no legal rights, no democracy (as in you can vote, but the outcome was decided for you), where making yourself heard can get you "vanished", etc and so on.

In practice this means that those populations of liberal democracies naively assume that all societies are the same basic balance of good and bad, and that this means that there are two balanced sides to any comparison. Thus they accept the untruth from internal and external propaganda that their country has faults comparable to the tyranny.

Sadly, it means that liberal democratic countries are easily riven and subverted (eg BLM et al), or freedoms carelessly thrown away, or disregard and even hate imbued for the historical process by which the democracy developed, and so on.

If anyone is interested in what its like to stare into the abyss of a totalitarian state, then Bill Browder's odyssey is a very enlightening read (caveat: from the few parts of which I have personal knowledge, I'd say his account is somewhat redacted and understated):

Red Notice: How I Became Putin's No. 1 Enemy
Bill Browder
ISBN-10: 0552170321
ISBN-13: 978-0552170321
While I'm no particular fan of Ronald Reagan, I think he got this pretty spot on. Like many things, if you haven't had to struggle or suffer to gain it, you tend to value it less (until it's gone).

“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”
 

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