The Chinese - not a great bunch of lads

Yarra

Old-Salt
The PRC has the resources it needs to sustain itself in most respects and has several commodities which are in great demand outside, so in that respect it's not resource poor. It's certainly nowhere near as dependent on outside sources as pre-war (or indeed present day) Japan and can fall back on its own supplies to a far greater extent. That means resources are not a matter of national survival in the same way, which is why I believe the motivations behind Japan's actions of the time are not present in the PRC. For one thing, Japan's actions were to try to seize resources on the Chinese mainland - 'the lifeline in Asia' - whereas the PRC already has them.

Actually, domestic demand makes up a higher proportion of GDP than export does and if external demand from trade goes down then logically so will internal demand for raw and unfinished material imports. That's again not a matter of survival in the same way that pre-war Japan had to e.g. secure rubber and oil or collapse back to an agrarian economy.

I think their current strategy with regard to 'the west' and in particular the various trade blocks within it shows that they understand divide and rule very well.
I'm not that interested in debating a correlation of a statement made by an academic on Zoom, although I did find it an interesting simile.

However, I very much stand by MY comments in relation to the contemporary relationship's China has/will have with the 'West' post CV19. AU is a good early example of a nation suddenly waking up to a emerging public debate around China's subversion of its sovereignty; VIC and Port Darwin at the top of the list. Despite trying to play a longer game, the UK is now starting to take notice of this wider debate. Divide and rule takes time, and the Chinese have played a blinder pre CV19. However, the situation has fundamentally changed post CV19. Bad Panda is now out in the open and 'West' will attempt to fix him there, whilst it get's its act together.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of Camp David in the coming weeks, now the Big Orange one has called a pow wow, No?
 
I'm not that interested in debating a correlation of a statement made by an academic on Zoom, although I did find it an interesting simile.

However, I very much stand by MY comments in relation to the contemporary relationship's China has/will have with the 'West' post CV19. AU is a good early example of a nation suddenly waking up to a emerging public debate around China's subversion of its sovereignty; VIC and Port Darwin at the top of the list. Despite trying to play a longer game, the UK is now starting to take notice of this wider debate. Divide and rule takes time, and the Chinese have played a blinder pre CV19. However, the situation has fundamentally changed post CV19. Bad Panda is now out in the open and 'West' will attempt to fix him there, whilst it get's its act together.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of Camp David in the coming weeks, now the Big Orange one has called a pow wow, No?

Financial isolation seems to be on the menu.
 
I'm not that interested in debating a correlation of a statement made by an academic on Zoom, although I did find it an interesting simile.
The nature of a discussion is that all input is up for discussion and analysis. A simile is only as good as its accuracy, and this particular one doesn't stand up to close inspection.
It will be interesting to see what comes out of Camp David in the coming weeks, now the Big Orange one has called a pow wow, No?
It certainly will, but I'd be equally (if not more) interested in the choices made by those countries which haven't been invited. Those countries are the stage on which the 'global influence' play will be performed, after all.
 

Yarra

Old-Salt
The nature of a discussion is that all input is up for discussion and analysis. A simile is only as good as its accuracy, and this particular one doesn't stand up to close inspection.

It certainly will, but I'd be equally (if not more) interested in the choices made by those countries which haven't been invited. Those countries are the stage on which the 'global influence' play will be performed, after all.
Well, I certainly agree on your second point.

Y
 
The PRC has the resources it needs to sustain itself in most respects and has several commodities which are in great demand outside, so in that respect it's not resource poor. It's certainly nowhere near as dependent on outside sources as pre-war (or indeed present day) Japan and can fall back on its own supplies to a far greater extent. That means resources are not a matter of national survival in the same way, which is why I believe the motivations behind Japan's actions of the time are not present in the PRC. For one thing, Japan's actions were to try to seize resources on the Chinese mainland - 'the lifeline in Asia' - whereas the PRC already has them.

Actually, domestic demand makes up a higher proportion of GDP than export does and if external demand from trade goes down then logically so will internal demand for raw and unfinished material imports. That's again not a matter of survival in the same way that pre-war Japan had to e.g. secure rubber and oil or collapse back to an agrarian economy.

I think their current strategy with regard to 'the west' and in particular the various trade blocks within it shows that they understand divide and rule very well.
Water being one of the resources where they are quite challenged
Where's @HectortheInspector when you need him?
 
Water being one of the resources where they are quite challenged
True and mismanagement, the dominant agricultural model and erosion play big parts in their problems.

They've placed a lot of faith in their urbanisation programme addressing those but it's still early days.
 
How are their dodgy irrigation habits helping/hindering their bat habits?
The Eat Anything On Earth policy is based on China's long history of famine.

They are locked into a constant cycle of trying to feed their population at all costs, to try and stop the tip over into another cycle of Civil war, warlordism, and anarchy. Prevention of that is why the Chinese government has such a control freak attitude.

The problem is that in order to feed everyone they have overfarmed everything to death, and become over reliant on artificial fertiliser.

Most of their farmland is critically degraded, and almost all their freshwater is polluted beyond belief with agricultural, and industrial chemical run off.

Eating endangered species is a paradoxical sign of prosperity and conspicuous consumption.

You can eat things from the Vietnamese jungle, but you can't trust the local fish.
 
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The Eat Anything On Earth policy is based on China's long history of famine.

They are locked into a constant cycle of trying to feed their population at all costs, to try and stop the tip over into another cycle of Civil war, warlordism, and anarchy. Prevention of that is why the Chinese government has such a control freak attitude.

The problem is that in order to feed everyone they have overfarmed everything to death, and become over reliant on artificial fertiliser.

Most of their farmland is critically degraded, and almost all their freshwater is polluted beyond belief with agricultural, and industrial chemical run off.

Eating endangered species is a paradoxical sign of prosperity and conspicuous consumption.

You can eat things from the Vietnamese jungle, but you can't trust the local fish.
Perhaps they will go down the Soylent Green route, after all they supposedly harvest prisoners organs to order so how much of a jump is for them to use them as a food source (Could be a nice BSE type event in China if they do)
 
Perhaps they will go down the Soylent Green route, after all they supposedly harvest prisoners organs to order so how much of a jump is for them to use them as a food source (Could be a nice BSE type event in China if they do)
They have a serious African Swine fever problem.
Killed off about a quarter of the world pig population last year, largely because they suppressed the figures for political reasons.
The Covid case wasn't an exception.
It is just how they do things.
 
That's what I love about Arrse: A thread goes from poking fun at nose picking Chinese to macroeconomic impacts of COVID19. All in the section of the site reserved for bums.

To add my observations to this fascinating thread, there is some content that I'd point my esteemed colleagues towards - A talk piece between 2 well respected academics - Mark Blyth and Adam Tooze, released 8th May:
Yes COVID19 was the major talking point, but the last part looked at China, unofficially titled "The dog that didn't bark. In that Adam Tooze noted that there hadn't been any real response from China (at the time of publication), which was odd. We have subsequently seen tightening of grips in HK and the Indian border, deployment of dual carrier strike fleets and other such rumblings. I would expect more economic moves at the same time. China is consolidating its position on the world stage, getting ready to hit the US where is really hurts (the wallet). We live in interesting times.

China needs some form of trade following @HectortheInspector comments. I also think the pragmatic view of @smartascarrots is also worth listening to and considering rather than generating derision. Cyberwarfare has been constant for many years now, these state and state sponsored actors know how to spread mayhem. I expect this to increase as the anti China rhetoric continues to be thrown. The private sector needs to seriously consider this as one of the top priorities, as well as picking up the pieces of their businesses post COVID. Some wont. Some will fold. Sorry about that.

This discussion is probably best for the other China threads. But once again BZ to you all for such stimulating conversation and opinion.
 
The Eat Anything On Earth policy is based on China's long history of famine.

They are locked into a constant cycle of trying to feed their population at all costs, to try and stop the tip over into another cycle of Civil war, warlordism, and anarchy. Prevention of that is why the Chinese government has such a control freak attitude.

The problem is that in order to feed everyone they have overfarmed everything to death, and become over reliant on artificial fertiliser.

Most of their farmland is critically degraded, and almost all their freshwater is polluted beyond belief with agricultural, and industrial chemical run off.

Eating endangered species is a paradoxical sign of prosperity and conspicuous consumption.

You can eat things from the Vietnamese jungle, but you can't trust the local fish.
Similar outlook in most poor countries. The peasantry/labour class will eat anything going and protein is a valuable commodity. Nothing gets wasted and bones are picked absolutely clean. Local scavengers feel hard done by with the efficiency with which protein is gathered.

I've seen lake flies made into cakes and fried in Uganda (kind of muddy grassy flavour) and mopani worms (caterpillars of a species of emperor moth) are popular in southern Africa. They're sold in big bags along the road, already gutted and dried for the pot. You'll see roast mice for sale next to the road in Zambia and other African countries. Cane rat is popular in KZN in SA. Locusts, cockroaches, small birds and anything else that is a source of protein doesn't stand a chance. The sparrows and other small birds you see in your garden were completely unknown in eastern Angola a few years ago. They all go into the pot.

 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
As used to be the case in the UK when we had real, rather than trumped-up poverty.

Blackbirds, hedgehogs, rabbits, all sorts, went into pies. Percy Thrower's autobiography has a lovely description of his father getting up early to catch blackbirds roosting in the hedge tops.

My great uncle was a bed wetter as a small child in the 1900s. The cure was to feed him a live mouse, so I assume the family was accustomed to eating dead ones.
 
As used to be the case in the UK when we had real, rather than trumped-up poverty.

Blackbirds, hedgehogs, rabbits, all sorts, went into pies. Percy Thrower's autobiography has a lovely description of his father getting up early to catch blackbirds roosting in the hedge tops.

My great uncle was a bed wetter as a small child in the 1900s. The cure was to feed him a live mouse, so I assume the family was accustomed to eating dead ones.
I still eat rabbit.


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Yarra

Old-Salt
That's what I love about Arrse: A thread goes from poking fun at nose picking Chinese to macroeconomic impacts of COVID19. All in the section of the site reserved for bums.

To add my observations to this fascinating thread, there is some content that I'd point my esteemed colleagues towards - A talk piece between 2 well respected academics - Mark Blyth and Adam Tooze, released 8th May:
Yes COVID19 was the major talking point, but the last part looked at China, unofficially titled "The dog that didn't bark. In that Adam Tooze noted that there hadn't been any real response from China (at the time of publication), which was odd. We have subsequently seen tightening of grips in HK and the Indian border, deployment of dual carrier strike fleets and other such rumblings. I would expect more economic moves at the same time. China is consolidating its position on the world stage, getting ready to hit the US where is really hurts (the wallet). We live in interesting times.

China needs some form of trade following @HectortheInspector comments. I also think the pragmatic view of @smartascarrots is also worth listening to and considering rather than generating derision. Cyberwarfare has been constant for many years now, these state and state sponsored actors know how to spread mayhem. I expect this to increase as the anti China rhetoric continues to be thrown. The private sector needs to seriously consider this as one of the top priorities, as well as picking up the pieces of their businesses post COVID. Some wont. Some will fold. Sorry about that.

This discussion is probably best for the other China threads. But once again BZ to you all for such stimulating conversation and opinion.
Some excellent background context in that YT Post and a good summary from LHS to boot.

My takeaway from the YT discussion is that, in the Fed (USD), the US still holds the whip hand. The dominant international currency trumps all (excuse the pun), as the Brits found, when the Dollar replaced Sterling during the 30s/40s. China is something of a pack of cards, but the West is still exposed to China catching a severe cold (Liquidity flight and debt leverage ID'd in the discussion).

Not too much Geo-strategic/political substance, outside of Global finance, but really useful context nevertheless.

Thanks LHS.

Y
 

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