Discussion in 'ACF' started by JoeGeorgeLong, Sep 13, 2009.

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  1. Hello all,

    I was just wondering, what do the regular amy think of the CCF and indeed, the Cadet forces in general. I really, really want to do some time in the forces after I go to university. and I have immense respect for every serviceman. Sometimes I feel that the Regulars like us and are really helpful and friendly and then when I spent a (very) short while with the ACF I got the impressions that we were not welcome at all. So, what I'm really trying to say is do servicemen think the CCF is just a group of camouflaged, (poorly) armed, incompetent scouts.

  2. At the end the day the Cadets are a uniformed youth organisation sponsored by Army RAF Navy etc....
    Cadet units imho are not some kind nazi-youth set up.

    I suspect the Regulars don't pay much mind to the Cadet units except CTT's I guess.

    Cadet units are a good source of recruitment to Regulars?
  3. And TA.
  4. You will get responses which are at different end of the spectrum on this site from the usual "kiddy Fiddler / grooming / child mo" ones through to "yes its a good idea, they are worthwhile, keeping hoodies off the streets".

    Thing to remember, its a youth organisation based on the Army. NOT a representation of the Army as in a unit etc. From a few blokes I know, its a lot about adventure training these days, still influenced by the affiliated regiment on the military side of things.
  5. IMHO the main problem with CCFs is their leadership, their officers are now the only holders of the Queen's commission who do not have to attend some form of AOSB (even ACF now have to attended a version). The vast majority have absolutely no military experience, in two schools that I know the only exposure to anything outside Frimley was one officer in each who had been in an UOTC.

    Frankly no matter how hard they try these 'officers' haven't a scooby about matters military and the standards of their cadets follow from that.

    This combines with the fact that some schools continue to make CCF compulsory so the vast majority of cadets don't want to be there - result a shambles of poorly turned out children lead by well meaning but incompetent 'officers'.

    It worked from 1945 to the early '70s or a bit later when teachers had served at least on NS, but that's long gone.

    If they removed the 'military' bit and re-branded as say scouts the whole thing would cause so much less angst all round, and would fit far better the things that they can do competently (AT, DoE etc).
  6. Yeah, but then no one would do it. Kids join for the warry stuff, not to learn how to tie knots and build campfires.
  7. In many cases children join because they have to - that's part of the problem. Scouts do far more physically (and mentally) challenging activities than any CCF I have seen in recent times.

    What exactly is 'warry' about CCF?
  8. They get to carry rifles, run around in S95, go on exercise. Ok, it's nothing compared to being a reg, but it's more than they would get to experience otherwise.
  9. CCF 1969 -1973.

    Sh1te clothing: everybody bought their own (so we looked like Che Guevara's army)

    Teachers had no feckin idea about soldiering - didn't matter: the kids who were interested did the research, and ('cos the teachers stood back and supervised) made it happen.

    My best pal (Andythejewishdoctor) was Cdt RSM: he used to fill in indents for kit, using SAS unit identification numbers - and we'd get it.

    It was a feckin excellent preparation for life - and even worked out pretty well for a 3 - decade career as an infanteree orrsifer.

    Best days of my life were in CCF (apart from those days after CCF, when I was having really naughty sex, of course) :D
  10. In my humble experience the CCF cadet benefits such a lot from attending. Sometimes being compulsory changes some of the pupil behaviour, turning weak and frail pupils into confident robust ones; naughty kids into focused and sensible ones. Some schools have all three services – The RAF cadets are on the whole the academic (spotters) ones, the Army are the rugby players (and normally most popular with the girls – not necessarily a good thing!!) and the Navy somewhere in between. The CCF has more flexibility than the ACF (in my opinion) as it is a complete unit (in the cadet world) and not a sub division. This makes things easier to gain kit and stores (as they have a UIN number which they use).

    CCF cadets in schools higher up on the academic league table, tend to be quicker on the uptake and when they are keen can be taught very rapidly indeed. This is fantastic as some minor subject can be taken as read and not repeated – others however take an eternity (specifically dress and drill lol)

    With the officers, like in any organisation you get winners and losers. Strong leadership and an efficient SSI is the backbone of the contingent. The SSI should be an ex regular (Warrant officer) ideally and keen to provide a service to the cadets (with a “can do” attitude and not someone who is just passive and bumping up their retirement fund).

    Many teachers are really keen to get on all the courses they can. Some see it as learning something new, rather than always teaching. However, the school dictates that courses can only be in the holidays (you can’t have an English or Maths teacher going on an AIs course during exams as this costs the school massively in terms of the kids and financially by paying for a substitute teacher). Frimley should acknowledge this and put more courses on during the holidays.

    Furthermore, there is almost triple the amount of officers (AIs) in the ACF than in the CCF with the same (if not more) amount of cadets. But CCFs expect more from their cadets in terms of maturity (I believe). However, this doesn’t always happen lol.

    Some cadets in schools started in the 17th century, with Officer Training Corps forms in 1860s and in its modern form produced sound officers. For example the current Frimley Commandant was CCF, as was Sir Graham Eric Stirrup ex chief of staff.
  11. I have to agree with Walting Matilda, all he has said is true, almost perfectly paraphrasing the Prospectus for the CCF Contingent I work at that the former OC wrote.

    As with the other pre-service youth organisations, the CCF prepares cadets to enter the world and hopefully become a useful member of society, not just get them ready for signing up to the regulars. With the emphasis in the CCF on Senior Cadets teaching the junior ones, CCF cadets are primed for giving instructions to others, be it in the field or in the office.

    CCF cadets leave school and normally, if they join up, aim for Officer entry (as the CCF was part of the Officer Training Corps), however, if they go for basic enlistment, they are normally quicker to get promotion to NCO as they have had most of the required training drummed in already.
  12. In the ACF, about 50% of the instruction, occasionally more, is given by Cadet NCOs to junior Cadets too. There are courses that JNCOs must attend if they wish to progress or even keep their stripe. The JCIC for L/Cpls, or Jnr Cadt Instrs Cse, and for progression beyound Cpl, The Snr Cdt Instrs Cse (SCIC) is required. These are not attendance courses. Cadets do fail. This is also in addition to JNCO & SNCO Cadres which must be passed too.

    Quite a few ACF cadets aim for Officer entry, but usually after Uni and UOTC.

    I would dispute that any cadet training in the CCF or ACF is 'required training' as you put it and gives any real advantages to trainee soldiers, enlisted or Officer. The Cadet Forces give a 'taster' and a pretty unique and detailed insight into service life, perhaps a bit of drill and a bit of SAA, some teamworking and problem solving, But by end of phase 1/First Term, there is little, if anything to distinguish the former cadet from the former plain civvy.
  13. I think I was quite lucky in my CCF unit in that the detachment CO really was a retired Lt Col (I have no idea what unit) and so we did a lot of military stuff.

    So when I joined I already knew what a section attack was and roughly how it should work- in the old way of gun group will go left, rifle group will go right flanking or the other way aroung which, until they rewrote pam 45 were really your only two options back in the 70s!
  14. We had an ex reg SSI (who is still one of my exempler's when the shit hits the fan) and a couple of ex TA SAS teachers. the exercises were very well thought out (one based on Pilgrims Progress was every bit as imaginative as anything I saw in the TA if not more and ended with a cadet under arrest and convinced that the custody procedure was part of the exercise.) and the CCF was at the centre of school life. I think because it was entirely voluntry it was taken pretty seriously, expecially by the people who stuck with it for the full five years (you could opt out in the 5th and 6th). Non military teachers worked hard to be assimilated and I know now that it was difficult to be allowed to join if you were a teacher.

    My contemporaries include an MC winner, one of the first female military pilots and a couple of Bedford loads of regulars and reservists of all ranks and services (and a slack handfull of coppers and merchant seamen/airline types). The Corps had produced two VC winners in the world wars.

    The school had produced soldiers and empire builders for a century and there were lots of people in high places (including a man who was later head of the Royal Marines) who could open doors for training and other oppotunities (I was in and out of helicopters and aircraft all the time - which I never was in the TA).... my final exercise saw me thundering around Germany in a Puma as a "platoon commander" ... oh to have so much fun in the Met!!!

    I think it was worth while, it made my teens for me and turned me from an insecure 13 year old to a robust and reasonably confident 18 year old who was more mature and organised than many of my friends who hadn't had a similar oppotunity... having been involved in the ACF for a couple of years I fear these oppotunities are going, i certainly can't imagine anyone allowing todays cadets to walk 15 miles over night in the Berwyns in pairs carrying weapons and ammo without close supervison... and with a "hunter force" on their trail.

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