The CBI slagging us Brits off again

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Speed_Air_Man, Apr 23, 2005.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Fat T w at Digby Jones has decided to have his 3 penneth about immigration

    Says Digby of Nazareth -" plans to impose any limit on immigration would leave firms unable to recruit the skilled workers that they need."

    In other words , we need them because you indiginous Brits and white people are to sodding lazy and stupid to recruit.

    Nice to know your appreciated :roll:

    full story here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4474997.stm

    S.A.M.
     
  2. In other words , we need them because you indiginous Brits and white people are to sodding lazy and stupid to recruit.

    No, it's because you indiginous (sic) Brits are too expensive to recruit, as the majority of our members want stunning profits come April.
     
  3. On the nail, PTP. The man talks about "...the flexibility which is, after all, the hallmark of the British labour market..." when what he means is the ability of employers in the less well regulated areas of industry (such as catering and agriculture) to squeeze immigrant labour for everything they can give.
     
  4. I normally agree with Digby Jones on a lot of things but this time im not to sure about it.

    In my part of the world, we have a skills shortage and need some way to recify this gap. The liberal left wave the flag of immigration as the saviour to our problems of skills shortages, but i whole heartedly disagree.

    Why cant we seek to solve the problem by getting rid of the cause of the problem rather than just treating it with a plaster? (sorry for the analogy). We need to ask why we have a skill shortage and how it can be solved. The quick and easiest way would be to allow immigrants to fill the skills/jobs that we cant. This may well solve the problem in the short term but that is its failing. It is very short sighted.

    How about actually addressing the cause of the problem by empowering our own population to fill the skills gap? Lets start by rebuilding our failing education system, lets encourage a greater desire to better ones self, and lets create a far more skilled and reliable workforce to make us a great country once more. This and only this can sort the skills gap in the long term and make our country a better place, rather than the 'stick a plaster on it' approach advocated by the liberal left.

    A_S
     
  5. You forgot to mention the fact that us, the indigenious brits have become accustomed to being given everything by the welfare state and why the hell should we work :roll:

    Immigration is out of control, New Labliar has lost it completely and whatever shiit they spout is purely there to gain votes. The pledge card they rant on about! Another pack of lies from them!

    All politicians are untrustworthy and are there for pure selfish reasons alone.
     
  6. I knew Digby Jones when he was just starting out at the CBI. It makes me laugh to hear him described as an industry leader; its like describing the SO3 Visits as a military commander! He is obviously such a talented thinker and businessman that instead of becoming CEO of a major corporation he chose to be the Ach Mediocrity of a very self-aggrandising omnibus trade association. He probably didn't need the money...

    Sadly Digby is just a second-rater who is taking the opportunity to grab a little glamour before fading into a suburban existence. How he will miss the chauffeur and the executive club lounges...
     
  7. From a 'Marxist' or (if you're very pretentious) 'Marxuisant' perspective, the entire immigration debate is rather counter-intuitive: Who does immigration actually benefit (apart from the immigrants)? - Capital, because it keeps labour costs down. Who suffers from immigration? - the indigenous working class, who are undercut by cheaper immigrants.

    I'd laugh if I wasn't crying....
     
  8. Yes, you're quite right, Andy. Ever since those damn immigrants came after the war, the working classes have found themselves destitute and on the street, forced to sell their children into prostitution.
     
  9. Don't worry the problem is not just in Britain. In Australia successive governments have closed down all the technical colleges and reduced incentives for employers to train apprentices. Now, in order to deal with the skilled labour shortage we are importing skilled Chinese labour. This short term answer will not hide the fact that if there is not a properly supported educational structure you will always have shortages.

    It is costing three times as much now to sort out as was saved in axing the system in the first place.
     
  10. The problem in Britian is one of success.. despite all the nay saying and image one may have, the British economy is humming.. compared to the Euro nations, the UK has a low unemployment rate.. 4. something..This means that there is not enough of a workforce ' skilled or unskilled ' to keep up with the needs of employers... [ Hence so many ' immigrant 'doctors for one thing ] and the fact that low wage jobs do not appeal to the ' indigenous population '.. agricultural workers/ service industry [ you know what I mean ] which allow businesses to compete with ' offshore ' industry could collapse if they were to pay a wage acceptable to the boys at the local...

    Germany is facing the same issue and is thinking of establishing a ' minimum wage' for the first time to combat this use of migrant workers..Italy has chosen to close its borders as much as possible.. France is facing the backlash of its earlier policies when it allowed so many muslim workers in and then saw them stay as immigrants skewing the ' demographic '.. Spain is the only country that is opening its borders to new immigrants [ which will cause another problem as these become ' citizens ' and then be entitled under EU law to travel anywhere for work. etc.. ]

    Holland, which, until recently, had a fairly homogenous population, has had a major influx of ' ethnic ' immigration which resulted in these new people forming ghettos where they had no need to learn the language, history, etc.. but continue their former practices in isolation, sort of a mini old country surplanted on the new - causing all kinds of other problems.. Canada has had an unprecedented demand from Dutch immigrants escaping from this adverse situation to settle on our shores [ mostly BC which is kind of funny because that's where we have a huge Asian population from Hong Kong chine and Sikh / Indian Sub-continent population...]

    Only way around the issue in Britain is to 1] have more kids to increase the work pool or 2] tighter controls on immigration re: Skills and Integration -[ similar to Canadian ' point system '-] we don't let anyone is who can't speak one or both of the ' offical languages, has a minimum education, is healthy, willing to locate to certain areas. etc. etc.. doesn't always work and the ' appeal process' is rife with problems but it stems the onslaugvht.. still bottom line is we need 300,000 per year immigration to ' break even ' because we're not squirting out babies fast enough to maintain the population , either...

    Immigrants: you got to love 'em and hate 'em...
     

  11. Mmm, yes. From today's Torygraph:

    There are so many things wrong with this, from grossly underfunded students and institutions, to the stripping of third-world economies of their most valuable people, that it's hard to know where to start. When one of our glorious 'political' parties grasps this sort of nettle firmly, maybe I'll think about voting for them.
     
  12. ....and after I posted that I turned to the BBC...
     
  13. You are looking at a problem that has two ends to it - skilled and educated people who become doctors, nurses, engineers etc. You cannot blame a failing education system for not producing high grade professionals because, by default, those workers are in the top few % of the educational elite. You could even argue that Labour's drive to get 50% of students into Higher Education would help ease the shortage at the top end, not hinder it.

    At the lower end of the spectrum it was the Conservative party who dismantled the tradtional Apprenticeship system because they saw it as a hot bed of Unionism activism. Without that, we also lost the benefit of on the job training for young men who were not academically inclined, we lost the constant replenishment of supplies of tradesmen and also we lost the benefit of a male dominated culture of learning (which, even as an unapologetic feminist I I very much admired and which we are poorer without).

    The Conservatives destroyed this model that has worked for a couple of thousands of years and took the workplace learning and gave it to ACADEMICS for f*cks sake!! It was the Tories who gave us NVQs and, to add insult to injury, moved the Modern Apprenticeship into the College system.

    My business is involved in this work (I run the Pub MA) and I am subcontracted by various Colleges to do this work. From my observations, the academic world was the last place work based training should have ended up - a scary number of young people are almost innumerate and illiterate (I have a nice bright 17 year old who doesn't know how to write an 'equal' sign) - there is a shortage of workers available to do the low skilled work. For example, the pub cleaning lady is now as likely to be a Polish or Croatian (doing an excellent job and doing it legally) because what used to be the young mum or middle aged woman who would have done it is now as likely to be the main income earner in her family, probably in administration, secretarial work or running her own cleaning business!

    The world has changed and so has the labour market. Rocketeer is right, the UK economy is doing well and we have to have a steady supply of workers at every skill level. The UK birthrate has been static for some time and the population is getting older. Just do your maths!
     
  14. "...the UK economy is doing well and we have to have a steady supply of workers at every skill level...."
    Agreed, but the educational system (at every level) is failing if we can't supply our own needs, rather than drain the willing, able and ambitious away from countries who desperately need them themselves. QED.

    Those who rationalise that continuing drain by the usual right-on arguments rather than admit the effect it has on the economies thus stripped of their best and brightest really need to look beyond the rights and wrongs of our domestic immigration policies.
     
  15. I grant you that point of view Whiskybreath - I think the educational system is definitely failing some children and I think for many of them, their parents are failing them too. I suspect that quite a few of these kids are getting jobs because businesses need them, not because they have been selected on merit. What would you rather have, as a businessman - a semi-literate English teenager or a fully functioning and well educated Polish teenager?

    I think immigration is an excellent idea if used sensibly.