The Castle Thread

Lowered ? Try thrown and head first if you were lucky enough for a quick death .
Which is why they were lowered.
 

Londo

LE
Which is why they were lowered.
And some weren't . Either way a horrible fate . Apparently the oubliette at St Briavels castle was at one time a 30 foot drop from the trap door . I think I would opt for head first if given the choice :)
 
And some weren't . Either way a horrible fate . Apparently the oubliette at St Briavels castle was at one time a 30 foot drop from the trap door . I think I would opt for head first if given the choice :)
Why bother with the construction of an oubliette (same origin as the French oublier, meaning 'to forget') if all you want to do is kill the prisoner: to break their neck, just throw them from the ramparts. An oubliette allows the prisoner to suffer, by dying slowly through starvation (eventually) and/or go mad through isolation and depravation, without the captor having blood on hs hands - "oh no, he was only my prisoner, who I held securely to prevent escape, but it wasn't me who killed him, as he died of natural causes (starvation)".
 
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Londo

LE
Why bother with the construction of an oubliette (same origin as the French oublier, meaning 'to forget') if all you want to do is kill the prisoner: to break their neck, just throw them from the ramparts. An oubliette allows the prisoner to suffer, by dying slowly through starvation (eventually) and/or go mad through isolation and depravation, without the captor having blood on hs hands - "oh no, he was only my prisoner, who I held securely to prevent escape, but it wasn't me who killed him, as he died of natural causes (starvation)".
I'm sure in very many (most) cases you are right . But I have read in the past of accounts of victims pleading to thrown head first so their necks are broken rather than dropped , leaving them with broken legs , shattered pelvises and a lingering , painful death . Not an ending I would like . In pain , in the dark with the rats and nothing to eat apart from gnawing on the rotten flesh of previous occupants .
 

PFGEN

GCM
This is Schloss Laudegg in Ladis, Austria. Doesn't really register on maps and is used in winter as a place to stay by people skiing in Serfaus/Fiss. Was there over 20 years ago and I can see from Google Maps that like a lot of places its been "developed" at bit. Pity as it definitely held an old world charm.

Ladis-schloss laudegg.jpg


The Post Hotel is still in the centre but appears to have undergone modernisation. When I went the main door opened to a restaurant with a large high ceiling, stone floors, locals round the tables, a blazing fire to keep things warm and efficient waitresses in traditional clothing moving briskly round tables with beer and good wholesome food. After a meal time to move on to the Schloss for a schnapps. A brisk walk up the road to the main gate and then on to the heavy wooden door to the keep. This would open with a creak and the sound of the metal latch of the kind found in many films. Hang the cap and overcoat on a peg and take a seat at one of the tables for further drinking.
 
I'm sure in very many (most) cases you are right . But I have read in the past of accounts of victims pleading to thrown head first so their necks are broken rather than dropped , leaving them with broken legs , shattered pelvises and a lingering , painful death . Not an ending I would like . In pain , in the dark with the rats and nothing to eat apart from gnawing on the rotten flesh of previous occupants .
And if, as Count Sir McEvil FitzBastard, I don't comply with your request, I increase your mental anguish and suffering, and the end result, while taking a bit longer but costing me no resources, is the same. I win!
 

Londo

LE
And if, as Count Sir McEvil FitzBastard, I don't comply with your request, I increase your mental anguish and suffering, and the end result, while taking a bit longer but costing me no resources, is the same. I win!
No doubt that was the outcome in many cases .
 
No doubt that was the outcome in many cases .
Of course, it could all be bolleaux, though I find it hard to believe that the construction of an architectural feature like a 'bottle dungeon' was simply a difficult to access storage room.

'Although many real dungeons are simply a single plain room with a heavy door or with access only from a hatchway or trapdoor in the floor of the room above, the use of dungeons for torture, along with their association to common human fears of being trapped underground, have made dungeons a powerful metaphor in a variety of contexts. Dungeons, as a whole, have become associated with underground complexes of cells and torture chambers. As a result, the number of true dungeons in castles is often exaggerated to interest tourists. Many chambers described as dungeons or oubliettes were in fact storerooms, water-cisterns or even latrines.[5]

'An example of what might be popularly termed an "oubliette" is the particularly claustrophobic cell in the dungeon of Warwick Castle's Caesar's Tower, in central England. The access hatch consists of an iron grille. Even turning around (or moving at all) would be nearly impossible in this tiny chamber.[6]

'A "bottle dungeon" is sometimes simply another term for an oubliette.[7] It has a narrow entrance at the top and sometimes the room below is even so narrow that it would be impossible to lie down but in other designs the actual cell is larger.[8][9]

'The identification of dungeons and rooms used to hold prisoners is not always a straightforward task. Alnwick Castle and Cockermouth Castle, both near England's border with Scotland, had chambers in their gatehouses which have often been interpreted as oubliettes.[4] However, this has been challenged. These underground rooms (accessed by a door in the ceiling) were built without latrines, and since the gatehouses at Alnwick and Cockermouth provided accommodation it is unlikely that the rooms would have been used to hold prisoners. An alternative explanation was proposed, suggesting that these were strong-rooms where valuables were stored.'


 

Londo

LE
Of course, it could all be bolleaux, though I find it hard to believe that the construction of an architectural feature like a 'bottle dungeon' was simply a difficult to access storage room.

'Although many real dungeons are simply a single plain room with a heavy door or with access only from a hatchway or trapdoor in the floor of the room above, the use of dungeons for torture, along with their association to common human fears of being trapped underground, have made dungeons a powerful metaphor in a variety of contexts. Dungeons, as a whole, have become associated with underground complexes of cells and torture chambers. As a result, the number of true dungeons in castles is often exaggerated to interest tourists. Many chambers described as dungeons or oubliettes were in fact storerooms, water-cisterns or even latrines.[5]

'An example of what might be popularly termed an "oubliette" is the particularly claustrophobic cell in the dungeon of Warwick Castle's Caesar's Tower, in central England. The access hatch consists of an iron grille. Even turning around (or moving at all) would be nearly impossible in this tiny chamber.[6]

'A "bottle dungeon" is sometimes simply another term for an oubliette.[7] It has a narrow entrance at the top and sometimes the room below is even so narrow that it would be impossible to lie down but in other designs the actual cell is larger.[8][9]

'The identification of dungeons and rooms used to hold prisoners is not always a straightforward task. Alnwick Castle and Cockermouth Castle, both near England's border with Scotland, had chambers in their gatehouses which have often been interpreted as oubliettes.[4] However, this has been challenged. These underground rooms (accessed by a door in the ceiling) were built without latrines, and since the gatehouses at Alnwick and Cockermouth provided accommodation it is unlikely that the rooms would have been used to hold prisoners. An alternative explanation was proposed, suggesting that these were strong-rooms where valuables were stored.'


I think some of these so called bottle dungeons were also used as ice houses at some point . Most castles would want one .
However we are both right in the use of these pit prisons . It all depends on who is in charge , their mood at the time . Who the prisoner is and what the facilities are at the time .
Not disagreeing with you but there will be variations of the norm .
 

daz

LE
Clun Castle taken yesterday 26.05.2020

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daz

LE
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daz

LE
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daz

LE
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daz

LE
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Londo

LE
Two of my favorites , both fairly local to me as mentioned on page one of this thread but the videos are new to me .
Orford Castle
 

Londo

LE
And Framlingham Castle
 
Two of my favorites , both fairly local to me as mentioned on page one of this thread but the videos are new to me .
Orford Castle
I've always been intrigued by the Orford 'Merman' story; as to what the actual circumstances behind the legend were.
 

Londo

LE
I've always been intrigued by the Orford 'Merman' story; as to what the actual circumstances behind the legend were.
Me too . There has to be something that happened that made the story be remembered through the ages .
 
Couple around about me,

Stanley castle now in the middle of Stanley resivior in in Paisley right next to houses these days story is that it has a knights templer(Don't they all!) and supposed ot have a tunnel linking it to the abbey.

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Dundonald castle now been taken over by Historical Scotland so have to pay to get in, It was still a ruin in the late 80's early 90's and you could access the dungeons we used it for a few cadet events as the training area from the old camp almost decended down to it.

Dundonald Castle - Wikipedia



Innis Chonnell - Wikipedia

Family would often camp out in this or mess about in it when up there fishing sometimes sleeping in the fireplace



Skipness castle been partially restored and got a couple of levels in the keep area with floors in it visited it in Feb reckon it's left open at night so you could stop over in it

Skipness Castle - Wikipedia

 

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