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Lots of drips and drabs around here,
Might as well start a central chinwag on this fabulous plan of world dominance ;)

I've been a fan and have been getting updates regularly over the last year or so...

For those not in the know, it boils down to this:

"A campaign to implement free movement, free trade and foreign policy cooperation between Canada, Australia, New Zealand & the United Kingdom." - CANZUK

So basically, putting bowing our head a bit with the old dominion and kicking ourselves into gear for some serious global trade.

I got this today:

Australia-UK Trade Negotiations Will Prioritize Freedom Of Movement​


1604444720194.png


A source close to the UK’s International Trade Secretary, Liz Truss, has told London based City A.M. newspaper that a UK-Australia trade deal will likely allow young Australians to live in the UK for more than two years, with a similar extension for Britons going to Australia.





Canada “Very Optimistic” For Concluding Trade Deal With UK In Coming Weeks​



Untitled-1 copy.jpg


The Canadian Prime Minister, Justin Cuckeau, has announced that the government of Canada are likely to conclude a post-Brexit trade deal with the UK in the coming weeks, with the aim of eliminating tariffs and other trade barriers between the countries. and losing his government to the patriotic Conservatives.





I hope this arrangement comes together, get the US on board and trade/people/progress can all by shared like a big happy five eyed family.
Thoughts?



PS - yeah I fecked with the pic and the headline, Trudy is a throbber, It's the least I could do.
 
Lots of drips and drabs around here,
Might as well start a central chinwag on this fabulous plan of world dominance ;)

I've been a fan and have been getting updates regularly over the last year or so...

For those not in the know, it boils down to this:

"A campaign to implement free movement, free trade and foreign policy cooperation between Canada, Australia, New Zealand & the United Kingdom." - CANZUK

So basically, putting bowing our head a bit with the old dominion and kicking ourselves into gear for some serious global trade.

I got this today:

Australia-UK Trade Negotiations Will Prioritize Freedom Of Movement​


View attachment 517437

A source close to the UK’s International Trade Secretary, Liz Truss, has told London based City A.M. newspaper that a UK-Australia trade deal will likely allow young Australians to live in the UK for more than two years, with a similar extension for Britons going to Australia.





Canada “Very Optimistic” For Concluding Trade Deal With UK In Coming Weeks​



View attachment 517440

The Canadian Prime Minister, Justin Cuckeau, has announced that the government of Canada are likely to conclude a post-Brexit trade deal with the UK in the coming weeks, with the aim of eliminating tariffs and other trade barriers between the countries. and losing his government to the patriotic Conservatives.





I hope this arrangement comes together, get the US on board and trade/people/progress can all by shared like a big happy five eyed family.
Thoughts?



PS - yeah I fecked with the pic and the headline, Trudy is a throbber, It's the least I could do.
There's no interest in bringing the US into CANZUK. A normal free trade deal with them yes, and continuing NATO relations, but not as a member. For starters it would be unworkable because the Americans would want to dominate it. The UK, Canada, and Australia are similar enough in size that no one country could dominate the relationship, but the Americans are far larger and used to having their own way. Secondly any hint of "free movement" from the US into Canada would be the absolute kiss of death to the concept so far as Canada are concerned.

You might also mention that CANZUK is official party policy for the Conservative Party of Canada, the current leader is a big backer of the idea, and it's one of his major policy planks.

Various senior politicians in the UK are reputedly in favour of the idea.

The real question is whether there's any serious support for it in Australia and New Zealand. So far as I know it hasn't had the same degree of major party buy-in there as it has in Canada or the UK.
 
There's no interest in bringing the US into CANZUK. A normal free trade deal with them yes, and continuing NATO relations, but not as a member. For starters it would be unworkable because the Americans would want to dominate it. The UK, Canada, and Australia are similar enough in size that no one country could dominate the relationship, but the Americans are far larger and used to having their own way. Secondly any hint of "free movement" from the US into Canada would be the absolute kiss of death to the concept so far as Canada are concerned.

You might also mention that CANZUK is official party policy for the Conservative Party of Canada, the current leader is a big backer of the idea, and it's one of his major policy planks.

Various senior politicians in the UK are reputedly in favour of the idea.

The real question is whether there's any serious support for it in Australia and New Zealand. So far as I know it hasn't had the same degree of major party buy-in there as it has in Canada or the UK.
Aus and NZ are generally more in favour of it than we are according to polls on the CANZUK website. However, I'm not sure Australia would stomach free movement between the UK, they've pretty much come out and said as much.
 
Aus and NZ are generally more in favour of it than we are according to polls on the CANZUK website. However, I'm not sure Australia would stomach free movement between the UK, they've pretty much come out and said as much.
The UK ambassador to Canada was on television a couple of years ago to be interviewed about Brexit and was asked about CANZUK. She said the UK didn't want to talk about "free movement" because it sounds too much like EU Free Movement and it's not something that people in the UK want to hear about at this time.

CANZUK "free movement" is more restrictive than EU style free movement, and would exclude people with criminal records, bad security files, or who were just generally viewed as undesirable. The CANZUK organisation mention the "free movement" policy because they think it's something the average person can relate to. It's not necessarily an essential part of what CANZUK is about though.

The real problem is that nobody really knows what "CANZUK" is actually supposed to be. It's been a "big idea" but no general agreement on what it actually would consist of.

If it comes about I suspect it would in reality be a collection of various treaties covering free trade, diplomatic cooperation, defence, security, joint R&D, energy, culture, sport, etc., etc.

Most people probably underestimate just how much the four countries are already doing together. We're doing it in a very disjoint and ad hoc manner however, and through third party organisations. Doing more of what we are already doing together, and dealing directly with each other as a group rather than as part of someone else's group may have a lot of advantages.

What it won't be is an "EU Lite", because there's no interest or appetite for anything like that.
 
Quite frankly, free movement of undesirables is not what we want. Clean records and good quals - no probs. Genuine tourist with return ticket - no probs. Chancer with suspect history - gerroff, there enough locals with that .
 
Quite frankly, free movement of undesirables is not what we want. Clean records and good quals - no probs. Genuine tourist with return ticket - no probs. Chancer with suspect history - gerroff, there enough locals with that .
The CANZUK proposals for "free movement" have been based on the Australia - New Zealand Trans Tasman Travel Arrangement (TTTA). As I understand it when someone from Australia arrives in New Zealand (or visa versa) they get a special visa. If at any time the authorities decide that he or she doesn't meet the "character requirements", then the visa is cancelled and the person is deported and barred from re-entering.

If Australian authorities assess that a New Zealander doesn't meet relevant character requirements, they can cancel all visas (including the 444 visa and permanent residence visas).

This can lead to that New Zealander being deported and barred from ever returning to Australia. New Zealand also deports Australians in some similar circumstances.

That page doesn't go into details, but as I understand it the "character requirements" are the usual, such as not having a criminal record, not being a member of a designated terrorist group, or otherwise deemed a risk to security, public order, or otherwise classified as an undesirable.

The main thing the TTTA does is that if you qualify for the special visa, you can remain in the country without a time limit and you can apply for work under that visa. If you then maintain your residency (e.g. keep your nose clean) you can then apply for permanent residency after a couple of years.

The TTTA (or related treaties) has various other aspects covering trade, diplomatic cooperation, defence, and other matters as well which CANZUK would also address.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
The CANZUK proposals for "free movement" have been based on the Australia - New Zealand Trans Tasman Travel Arrangement (TTTA). As I understand it when someone from Australia arrives in New Zealand (or visa versa) they get a special visa. If at any time the authorities decide that he or she doesn't meet the "character requirements", then the visa is cancelled and the person is deported and barred from re-entering.



That page doesn't go into details, but as I understand it the "character requirements" are the usual, such as not having a criminal record, not being a member of a designated terrorist group, or otherwise deemed a risk to security, public order, or otherwise classified as an undesirable.

The main thing the TTTA does is that if you qualify for the special visa, you can remain in the country without a time limit and you can apply for work under that visa. If you then maintain your residency (e.g. keep your nose clean) you can then apply for permanent residency after a couple of years.

The TTTA (or related treaties) has various other aspects covering trade, diplomatic cooperation, defence, and other matters as well which CANZUK would also address.
Zero Alpha watches a thing about the Australian Border Force, Customs, Immigration, etc. Nobody gets a free arrival into Australia, even from New Zealand. Any whiff of a criminal record from an arrival from New Zealand (or indeed anywhere else), visa cancelled, first plane home. Do not pass Go, etc.
 
Mild update on this, talk that the trade deal will include the previously mentioned 2 years for youngsters there is mention of free movement of "professionals" with equal recognition of qualifications. No explanation of what constitutes a professional be at the moment though. Might be specific fields or it might be anyone who would normally qualify for a 189 visa.
 
Things are seen through a different lens in Australasia (and I suspect, in Canada). Family and friends in Australasia have always seen entry requirements in to Britain for the 'Old Commonwealth' as deeply unfair; these countries gave their all in defence of the UK and Empire twice in the last century; New Zealand had the highest per capita cas rate in WWI across the Empire. Memories in NZ and Australia are still injured by the apparent betrayal of the UK entering the EEC and overnight, NZ (in particular) losing almost all it's market for primary produce except fish and forestry. It did, however, force major structural reformation of their economy - deregulation, loss of protectionism and subsidies etc. Britain is no longer the 'go to' place for young Australasians to travel to and to work, but more viewed as a favoured maiden aunt who ought to be visited.

Beforetimes (ie pre Covid) I used to encounter a lot of young Australasians in the UK - mainly in London, and mainly in the professional (medicine and law) and financial sectors. Many regard Britain as home - they love the career opportunities, culture and history - and realise that after being away from their home countries for a few years, home is likely to be just a bit too quiet for their likings. I can think of several couples who returned down under, only to return a couple of years later to the UK, having found life there a bit parochial.
 

Yarra

Old-Salt
Things are seen through a different lens in Australasia (and I suspect, in Canada). Family and friends in Australasia have always seen entry requirements in to Britain for the 'Old Commonwealth' as deeply unfair; these countries gave their all in defence of the UK and Empire twice in the last century; Snip Britain is no longer the 'go to' place for young Australasians to travel to and to work, but more viewed as a favoured maiden aunt who ought to be visited.

Beforetimes (ie pre Covid) I used to encounter a lot of young Australasians in the UK - mainly in London, and mainly in the professional (medicine and law) and financial sectors. Many regard Britain as home - they love the career opportunities, culture and history - and realise that after being away from their home countries for a few years, home is likely to be just a bit too quiet for their likings. I can think of several couples who returned down under, only to return a couple of years later to the UK, having found life there a bit parochial.
As part of an extended anglo-Australian family, we have never been better connected; each branch of the family regard the UK and AU respectively as a second home. Our Children (The AUs now mainly 4th or 5th generation) all intend to study at each others 'local' uni. The olds all travel regularly (every 18 months) between UK/AU.

Despite the distance, Whatsapp, Zoom etc bring us all close... in a way that a whistley, broken phone call, on a 15 second delay, or the odd letter, could never. The ability to go through a CANZUK passport control (if it happens) will be, primarily, a symbolic, but hugely important shift in perception. Also, apps like YouTube, Xbox etc, allow the younger generation to connect, share thoughts, ideas and memes outwith 'local' MSM, with whatever local political lens applied. This should not be underestimated.

When back in AU last, 18 months ago, we were surprised how many locals wanted to talk about BREXIT, some got quite emotional about the opportunities it provided for a renewed relationship. We also had the odd sneer, but the vast majority were openly enthusiastic. CANZUK is an opportunity that must be dealt with sensitively. Hubris and any thought of Empire Redux is foolish and will be counter-productive. However, despite the tyranny of distance, the CANZUK nations and the wider Commonwealth seem to be facing a unique set of circumstances, which if they exploit intelligently and sensitively, may well see this group of very like minded nations reap the benefits of collective effort.

I also have Canadian fam, who, whilst not as close to my immediate family, are still well connected to the UK based bits of our tribe. They seem to feel largely the same. Not sure about the Kiwi cousins.

Y
 

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