The Cadet Rifle

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#1
I heard a rumour that the Cadet rifle is being binned and normal Riffle 5.56s (A1 or A2s) are being rolled out. Was this wishfull thinking on the part of the rumour spreader or is there some substance to it?

Is there any legislative or regulatory reason why cadets have the cadet rifle? It seems odd that they have single shot manually cocked rifle but can have LSWs.

Are cadets attending training with regular or TA units allowed to fire the standard rifle? Are there restrictions placed on this?
 
#3
The last rumor i heard is the Cadet rifle was going to be replaced (at some point) by a semi automatic version. Not sure how true this is but it keeps coming around from time to time. But i think it is in the pipe line to be made in some format or other.

Cadets attending training with TA or regular units are allowed to use the standard rifle under close supervision and i think (would have to look at the red book) there is an age limit but not to sure as i've not been on any of the visits that have gone on with my county.

As for the single shot issue i'm not sure where that comes from, if it was just designed like that at the time with safety in mind (blanks with no BFA umm really safe) but then again the cadets used to have the LMG before the LSW.
 
#4
The cadet rifle addresses the problem of supplying a weapon in .22 rimfire for use in the indoor range that looks just like the current service weapon. It avoids all the nausea of the conversion kits and yet allows the weaker cadet to cock the weapon. It would appear to fufill these aims.

It is however the camel of the weapons world, as I have been advised elsewhere in these forums there are COTS solutions such as the Walther G22 that do the whole thing (apart from look like and SA80) very well.

There are no legal or insurance issues about an agent of the crown handling a weapon of any form when they are acting under command of their CO using weapons approved at 2* level.

[They may be able to cock the weapon, but I'd like to f*** the auto-censor]
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
Heckler & Koch have designed and built a replacement weapon and are awaiting a production order (as far as I know)

I have handled the weapon at the recent DSEI and it is just an SA80 A2 with the change lever removed so that it has a semi automatic action so it has a flash eliminator and can take a BFA.
 
#6
At least a BFA will make it that little safer to use on field weekends, unless some cadet decides he would prefer to fit the bayonet on it *gulps*

that is if the flash eleminator is different so as not to fit the bayonet.
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
There is no point in modifying the flash eliminator so it won't take a bayonet just to stop cadets fixing one on. It is the kind of paranoia that ended up with no flash eliminator and that stupid cocking handle extension in the first place. The cocking handle extension is so poorly designed that I have pulled two handles off during training in the last 3 years and I haven't been live firing in that time. If you see a cadet with a bayonet then take it off him, put his kit in a bin bag and send him home.
 
#8
I'm still a little "freaked out" that 12 year old kids roam around woods with rifles as big as they are!!!!!

No problem with teaching shooting in a range and with a single shot .22, what NEED is there for kids to handle Semi-Automatic weapon?

Remember, this is an Army based youth organisation NOT the army.

If the older kids want to shoot A2's etc... amd get really warry... let them wait until they are 17 then join the TA and do it for real.
 
#9
The idea of a 15 year old (MiB do they still need to be 15 to shoot live on a range with the Cdt GP?) firing an A1 fills me with dread should they happen to forget to ensure the selector is on rounds when their drills might be pump. 3 seconds, 30 rounds and a load of dead schoolkids and instructors later and little Johnny's standing there wondering what the fukc just happened - no ta!
 
#10
I'm on a range this weekend and more than likely do a quick shoot, as for the cocking handle i have seen a few been pulled off and also just drop off. One poor cadet even caught his face badly as said item broke off.

I don't think any cadet would try to fit a bayonet (but anything can happen in Norfolk). Semi auto would be good for doing shooting comps me thinks.
 
#11
woopert said:
The idea of a 15 year old (MiB do they still need to be 15 to shoot live on a range with the Cdt GP?) firing an A1 fills me with dread should they happen to forget to ensure the selector is on rounds when their drills might be pump. 3 seconds, 30 rounds and a load of dead schoolkids and instructors later and little Johnny's standing there wondering what the fukc just happened - no ta!
OK, so they have to be 15 to shoot live? BUT do you have to b 15 to handle a weapon?

These types of combat weapons are designed for one purpose, causing harm and as a result killing people.

Police don't get to handle weapons, why should kids?
 
#12
woopert said:
The idea of a 15 year old (MiB do they still need to be 15 to shoot live on a range with the Cdt GP?) firing an A1 fills me with dread should they happen to forget to ensure the selector is on rounds when their drills might be pump. 3 seconds, 30 rounds and a load of dead schoolkids and instructors later and little Johnny's standing there wondering what the fukc just happened - no ta!
Only rules with Cadet firing live ammo is that they need to have been instructed, tested and passed on that weapon. Their used to be a myth about cadets having to be 16 to use the LSW, but that's not true either, unless it's in the New Red book which hasn't been issued yet
 

maninblack

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
woopert said:
The idea of a 15 year old (MiB do they still need to be 15 to shoot live on a range with the Cdt GP?) firing an A1 fills me with dread should they happen to forget to ensure the selector is on rounds when their drills might be pump. 3 seconds, 30 rounds and a load of dead schoolkids and instructors later and little Johnny's standing there wondering what the fukc just happened - no ta!
Yes, I believe it is 15 years and 6 months off the top of my head.

I have only ever seen extremely tight range discipline applied when cadets are firing under the control of qualified cadet staff. It is probably one of the safest things that they do as the levels of supervision are beyond dictatorial (and rightly so)

The idea of letting cadets of 17 and over fire/carry weapons whilst denying this to cadets of younger ages I would have to disagree with from a practical point of view. Whilst this is a youth organisation, as far as the cadets are concerned IT IS THE ARMY. Also, keep in mind that when you are 30 years old a year goes past like a galloping horse but when you are 13 a four year wait to get your hands on a rifle is a third of your life. There would not be any 17 year old cadets and no ACF left to carry on the work of keeping theiving little scrotes off the streets.

As long as it continues to be tightly controlled it is safe.
 
#14
maninblack said:
Whilst this is a youth organisation, as far as the cadets are concerned IT IS THE ARMYquote]

OK, I have nothing against Cadets.... (I was one!)

Most of them are very polite and know their place when working in the vicinity of regular or ta soldiers.

The organisation does alot of good work BUT it isn't an ARMY.

I think we need to take a step back and not try and make the Cadets as close to the Army as possible in everyway.
 
#15
I was a Cadet about 5 years ago and the were rumours then about getting A1's...
Not gonna happen!
And why would they need to have a BFA? Its got no gas parts....
Cheat's Predictions- You'r just gonna have to sit in the middle and s*ck it

T C
 
#16
I think we do not give the cadets the credit they are due for SAA, in 5 years I have not seen a ND with them, thats not to say that there are some horrors out there (as there are in Reg and TA) but these are controlled by having sufficent "qualified" adults behind them when firing. We took all ours through small arms trainer using SA80A2 and they coped brilliantly, granted it is not the real thing but even so they were ok. If the new rifle is the one that was on display recently then there will be no problem selecting auto Wupert as it will not be there. Cadet Gp rifle was declared obsolete in January so needs replacing.
 
#17
I thought that they were getting the A1's without the Gas parts. This removes the risk of them firing on Auto and keeps a pool of weapons should more be required for modification. It also provides a use for the .22 conversion kits as these are obsolete on A2's.

Seemed like a logical argument at the time. I don't see why it should have changed?
 
#18
This has nothing to do with the thread at all, but I was a Cadet when we had .303 rifles.

The introduction of the Cadet GP Rifle was like manna from heaven, but even back then, there were chunterings that 'one day' Cadets would get the SA80.

I can only imagine the utter chaos that would occur. Having said that, I still have shameful memories of being forced to shout 'BANG' to simulate weapons being fired.

I hope this sort of thing has been stamped out.
 
#19
Darth_Doctrinus said:
This has nothing to do with the thread at all, but I was a Cadet when we had .303 rifles. .
Was that in your chariot? :D


Darth_Doctrinus said:
I can only imagine the utter chaos that would occur. Having said that, I still have shameful memories of being forced to shout 'BANG' to simulate weapons being fired.

I hope this sort of thing has been stamped out.
Nope. Come away for a weekend with the TA :D
 
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