The British Government. What a bunch of Cnuts. 2000 Chinese sailors who served Britain forcibly deported after the war.

They weren't here illegally. They were recruited from China specifically to help the war effort and then treated disgracefully when the war was over.


It wasnt my intent to suggest they were here illegaly - Rather that wartime service should validate their right to be here.


That said in the context of them only being in the UK because they were recruited speciffically for war service - Im less sympethetic to the decision than I was - as i can see why it happenned.

Edit to add - To be clear I see a distinct differrence between here pre war and recruited abroad during the war - The latter wouldknow it was temporary the former - they would have been truly shafted

If their contract didnt give them the right to stay and was clear it was for the duration of the war.
Then the decision to send them away wasnt racist* -it was economic - Demobbed sailors now availible to retun to the MN and thus their contracts finished.

Thats not to say I agree or that they shouldnt have been given the option to stay - but from an economic position - would they have had work? if so would that have been at the expense of former MN sailors conscripted into the RN - which would seem just as shoddy to pull a working man from his job send him to war then cast him aside afterwards.


*See also the sexist policy** of dissmissing those women who had worked in industry during the war - and giving their jobs to men.
The outraged at such riding roughshod over if not completely oblivious to the fact that women were only doing the jobs because the men had been conscripted as such both their factory work and the mens military service were temporary.

And no suggesting that next time we leave men in their jobs and recruit women 1st to avoid this doesnt go down well.

**Im not joking this was a real article a year or 2 back on systemic sexism etc
 
Oh well, at least it will keep Windrush out of the headlines for a few days! =)
We really do live in a brutal, racist, oppressive Country. Clearly, we are the only Country, ever, in the whole History of mankind to have acted appallingly and made mistakes, which when viewed through the narrow, comfortable lens of hindsight makes us a disgusting nation.
No wonder nobody wants to risk their life to get here. :roll:
Makes me wonder why I don’t share the disgust of the vocal minority and instead, thank my lucky stars that I won the lottery of Life when I was born a (little) Englander!
I’m fed up with all this apologising for and condemning our forefathers actions. It was different times and a completely different World back then. Stop bloody navel gazing!
Am I outraged? Not really - just a grumpy, cynical old man.
 
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if so would that have been at the expense of former MN sailors conscripted into the RN - which would seem just as shoddy to pull a working man from his job send him to war then cast him aside afterwards.
Sailors in the Merchant Navy weren't conscriped into the RN or any service. It was a reserved occupation.
 
We hoofed out Polish Servicemen at the same time, I doubt many of them were non white..
No Polish servicemen were hoofed out. They couldn't return home because the Communists had occupied their country and were carrying out purges on any non communists including the Polish Home Army. Plus they knew the truth about what had happened at Katyn and other places. It wasn't the nasty Nazis as the west claimed up until 1990, but cuddly old uncle Joe and his NKVD mates. Our recent heroic allies.
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
Are you ever outraged, or just permanently sarcastic?


I broke my sarcasm bone. In most people it's the funny bone.
 
No Polish servicemen were hoofed out. They couldn't return home because the Communists had occupied their country and were carrying out purges on any non communists including the Polish Home Army. Plus they knew the truth about what had happened at Katyn and other places. It wasn't the nasty Nazis as the west claimed up until 1990, but cuddly old uncle Joe and his NKVD mates. Our recent heroic allies.
You are correct they werent - I was misslead by some rather woolly writing in the Guardian

Mind you since it was A) the gruniad b)they state how the poles raced to help Britain - neglecting that they were only needed because we had declared war in support of Poland -c) portrayed the sensible logic of grouping non English speakers in their own squadrons as racial superiority and arrogance - I should perhaps have seen that coming.
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
I wasn’t referring to you mate, you don’t carry a massive chip on your shoulder.


I know, but I couldn't resist the chance to mention my own level of sarcasm. I keep my chips hidden...
 
Justice for their children, On the face of it its an unjustified travesty - Even if they were here illigally pre war - Id argue wartime service in the MN warranted citizenship.

It is however unfortunate that its already been decided it was racist before any investigation,
We hoofed out Polish Servicemen at the same time, I doubt many of them were non white..

Id rather the investigation / inquiry was conducted with an open mind - the current attitude that if the victim is non white the motive is racist will not serve us well.
Open minds, not find many of those in the Guardianista!
We also deported all the Russian cossaks captured having fought on the German side into the caring hands of the Russians in 1946 only for them to not arive at their destination.
 
No Polish servicemen were hoofed out. They couldn't return home because the Communists had occupied their country and were carrying out purges on any non communists including the Polish Home Army. Plus they knew the truth about what had happened at Katyn and other places. It wasn't the nasty Nazis as the west claimed up until 1990, but cuddly old uncle Joe and his NKVD mates. Our recent heroic allies.
Good job no one has mentioned the Cossacks!

edited to add. just too slow.
 
Good job no one has mentioned the Cossacks!
See above - sadly a delightful ex Royal Scots Fusilier officer I knew of old was commanding a Platoon who were guarding Cossaks as they were put on the trains home. They all knew what was going to happen and he still spoke with a slight wibble 30 years after the event.
War Endex is never a good time for the loosing side!
 
Good job no one has mentioned the Cossacks!

edited to add. just too slow.

Not so sure I see it as a Betrayal - They werent helping us then handed over.

I dare say we more than suspected what fate awaited them but

They had volunteered** to work alongside Hitlers regime and it was now common knowledge the crimes it had commited as such I doubt there was to much sympathy - Nor were the Soviets crimes so well known.

Russia was holding a lot of British POWs it had liberated in the East - not handing over Russians may have seen them refuse to hand over ours.


** As opposed to the Hiwis who were dragged from POW camps and voluntold into slave labour for the werchmant. Who then fought simply because they were dead if captured by their own side - not that escaped Russian POWs fared much better if they got back to their own lines
 
And no suggesting that next time we leave men in their jobs and recruit women 1st to avoid this doesnt go down well.

**Im not joking this was a real article a year or 2 back on systemic sexism etc
I think it is quite laudible. The feminists wanted more than mere equality so conscript them into combat roles and ship them out.
We'll man* the home fires for once.

*Pun intended
 
Russia was holding a lot of British POWs it had liberated in the East - not handing over Russians may have seen them refuse to hand over ours.
I think that the Soviets had point blank told the Allies that they weren't getting their POW's back until their citizens in Allied hands were handed over, principly the Cossack Corp. Many of them were Ukranians who hated the Reds due to the forced collectivisation of their land and the subsequent famine in Ukraine in the twenties in which millions staved to death and which modern day Ukraine terms a genocide.

The allies refused to hand over any of the soldiers it had captured from the Latvian and Estonian SS Divisions. Principly the soldiers of the 15th Latvian SS Division who managed to surrender to the Allies in the West. The Allies refused to hand them over as it didn't regard them as Soviet citizens as the USSR had annexed the Baltic Stated in 1940 as part of the Soviet Union. This was not recognised by the Allies. Many of them acted as guards at the Nuremberg trials. Some were infiltrated back into Latvia, to aid the anti Soviet resistance there by MI6 via a former German E-Boat with its German Captain and crew. They were captured straight away though and most were subsequently executed. Traitors in MI6 had betrayed all the details to the Soviets.

As opposed to the Hiwis who were dragged from POW camps and voluntold into slave labour for the werchmant. Who then fought simply because they were dead if captured by their own side - not that escaped Russian POWs fared much better if they got back to their own lines
Most of the Hiwis volunteered and were treated more or less as equals even in Waffen SS Panzer Divisions. The exception was in Divisions composed of Austrians apparently. Kurt Meyer in his memoirs stated that in the winter defensive fighting on the Don in 1941/42 that Motorised Brigade LAH had more Chechens and Ukranians in the trenches than German at one point.

When the Soviets started liberating Russian POW camp's in 1945 most of the inhabitants were shipped off to the Gulags as the Soviet's thought they had been contaminated by exposure to the west. I remember watching one programme where they were interviewing a Soviet bomber pilot who had been shot down and captured by the west. He was sent to Siberia because he had allowed himself to be captured. He said that he had been treated far better by the Germans than he had by his own people.
 

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