The British Army, Modern and Professional?

[Nickhere]

I was recently in an audience receiving a speech from CinC Land Forces. During this presentation, he mentioned that an American Major had said to him "your troops now look the way ours did at the end of the Vietnam war". He made the point that we do not LOOK professional anymore.

This caused masses of debate amongst my peers and I from a large variety of cap badges, and the majority of junior officers (Lts and Capts) tend to agree with him, whilst the SNCO crowd I have asked tend to disagree. So, whilst on the Army homepage, I saw the attached picture. And I thought, what a terrible advert to place for a 'Modern and professional Army'. It does, infact, look very similar to an american soldier towards the end of the Vietnam war (which they lost, as I recall and I'm sure you know!). Not a good image really.

So, what do the crowd here think?

 

[Daytona955]

You are right, that soldier would look far more professional and smart in No 2 Dress

Nick - have you even been on a tour yet or just attended a few parades??

 

[SkiBum]

The voting options should include "Apropriately dressed and equipped to do the job"

 

[meridian]

A can't see the link between how a US infantry soldier looked and losing a war, likewise can't see the point of looking smart and all military like when on ops, you dress to be effective, not uniform and smart

If they are making the link between discipline (as embodied in dress) and effectiveness then fair enough but I hardly think you can compare a 1960's US soldier in Vietnam, where there were several discipline issues, with our lot in Afghanistan.

What next, scarlet tunics.

ps
Is this a wah

 

[theiftaker]

The voting options should include "Apropriately dressed and equipped to do the job"

What he said.

 

[Doc_Henry]

looks like the majority of airborne troops during WW2 ... and we won that one didnt we?

 

[Nickhere]

The voting options should include "Apropriately dressed and equipped to do the job"

Fair enough. I'd change it if I could, if a MOD can feel free

 

[hardnut]

I think that his facial expression shows more than his uniform could, he clearly looks determined and focused on the task in hand, although maybe a little tired.

What could be more proffesional than having soldiers that are determined and focused in such harsh conditions?

 

[MotorMan]

I was a total REMF in Iraq and the closest I've ever come to the 'front line' on tour was clearing mines in Bosnia. I therefore feel supremely ill-qualified to comment on what lads on the ground look like whilst serving in Helmand. I would suggest that unless you've been in their position, you wind your neck in.

 

[rockape34]

What next, scarlet tunics.

...you mean complete with pointy things and a white cross to give the opposition the chance of a hit?

 

[Pharscape81]

You are doing a job well if you look good doing it

 

[Nickhere]

I was a total REMF in Iraq and the closest I've ever come to the 'front line' on tour was clearing mines in Bosnia. I therefore feel supremely ill-qualified to comment on what lads on the ground look like whilst serving in Helmand. I would suggest that unless you've been in their position, you wind your neck in.

My comments are regarding CinC Land Force's words. I suspect he knows, maybe you should tell him to wind his neck in?

 

[Doc_Henry]

i'm still struggling to see the link between how a soldier dress' and the way in which they conduct themselves on operations and how they win a war?

For example during the falklands (and i can assume some of you lot can vouch for me on this one) the kit wasn't exactly sparkling, but that didnt effect the outcome.

 

[Spanny]

Let's not forget the Israelis don't go in much for smart drill uniforms and have some really scruffy looking soldiers but managed to kick their neighbours arses , so all this crap coming from some septic is superflous . I'm sure there's a lot of Iraqis and Taliban in a graveyard who'll agree with me

 

[skintboymike]

You are doing a job well if you look good doing it

That's a daft comparison too. A soldier's abilty to perform and professionalism is down to his training, attitude and experience, end of.

 

[drain_sniffer]

Its 45 degrees, you are carrying (not including your Osprey) Ammo, ECM, Comms, more ammo, med kit, water, some ammo, and you have been on patrol for 7 hours - Perhaps you would like troops to form square and march back into the FOB with bands playing?




you have never been on an Op have you Nick

 

[Nickhere]

Let's not forget the Israelis don't go in much for smart drill uniforms and have some really scruffy looking soldiers but managed to kick their neighbours arses , so all this crap coming from some septic is superflous . I'm sure there's a lot of Iraqis and Taliban in a graveyard who'll agree with me

CinC land forces is a British 4 star, not a septic.

His point, is that we are fighting fundamentally different campaigns where winning the population is key. Looking like the Taliban won't endear them towards you, as the Americans were to discover in Vietnam and Early GW2.

Further, you should recognise that the Israeli's have failed to solve their security issues through heay handed tactics and as I'm sure you are aware, dead taliban and dead Iraqi's does not mean we're winning.

It's called Info Ops, of which uniform comes under PPP (Pose, Presence, Posture). If you think that doesn't affect our strat comms, international image and national image, you'd be mistaken.

That's why uniform is linked to operational effectiveness, in this context.

 

[skintboymike]

I was a total REMF in Iraq and the closest I've ever come to the 'front line' on tour was clearing mines in Bosnia. I therefore feel supremely ill-qualified to comment on what lads on the ground look like whilst serving in Helmand. I would suggest that unless you've been in their position, you wind your neck in.

My comments are regarding CinC Land Force's words. I suspect he knows, maybe you should tell him to wind his neck in?

So, whilst on the Army homepage, I saw the attached picture. And I thought, what a terrible advert to place for a 'Modern and professional Army'. It does, infact, look very similar to an american soldier towards the end of the Vietnam war (which they lost, as I recall and I'm sure you know!). Not a good image really.

So your're saying that it was the CinC that held this opinion, and not yourself?

 

[Daytona955]

Let's not forget the Israelis don't go in much for smart drill uniforms and have some really scruffy looking soldiers but managed to kick their neighbours arses , so all this crap coming from some septic is superflous . I'm sure there's a lot of Iraqis and Taliban in a graveyard who'll agree with me

CinC land forces is a British 4 star, not a septic.

His point, is that we are fighting fundamentally different campaigns where winning the population is key. Looking like the Taliban won't endear them towards you, as the Americans were to discover in Vietnam and Early GW2.

Further, you should recognise that the Israeli's have failed to solve their security issues through heay handed tactics and as I'm sure you are aware, dead taliban and dead Iraqi's does not mean we're winning.

It's called Info Ops, of which uniform comes under PPP (Pose, Presence, Posture). If you think that doesn't affect our strat comms, international image and national image, you'd be mistaken.

That's why uniform is linked to operational effectiveness, in this context.

The man in the photo looks like a Taliban?

You really have not travelled much have you young man

 

[western]

And this was the good look