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The Brexit Consequences Thread

WightMivvi

Old-Salt
That makes no sense at all. Have a nice evening.
Sorry. I thought the well being of the (apparently drunk and breaking covid rules) Sandhurst cadets was your part of ship.

Having been the nearest thing to a responsible adult on runs ashore, I know it’s a full time job to try and herd service personnel.
 

Brotherton Lad

LE
Kit Reviewer
Sorry. I thought the well being of the (apparently drunk and breaking covid rules) Sandhurst cadets was your part of ship.

Having been the nearest thing to a responsible adult on runs ashore, I know it’s a full time job to try and herd service personnel.

It isn't and I'd be most surprised if any of my guys were involved.

Besides, I didn't get an invitation.
 
First of all, the French don't fcuk about with EU regs when it affects French people, that is the absolute brutal truth.
As anyone can see throughout the history of the EU so far.

So to answer your question no, they are prioritising it into phases as to vulnerability.
Saying that the pharmacies are a bit of a closed shop over here, in some places more of a mafia really.
It would be interesting to see the release dates and categories of people getting the vaccine first in Spain, Germany and Holland.
I would be very surprised if it was a general release across all ages across the board.
There are also still several of my elderly neighbours waiting for their annual flu jab, same in Denmark I am told by family there.
Not enough ordered apparently, but entirely forgivable this year.



(Unless you are Boris obviously)

Don't know about the other countries but the Spanish Min of Health announced last week 15 categories of priority in 3 phases for the vaccine.
First Phase Jan to March will be Care home residents, staff in the care homes, other health workers and people with serious chronic diseases or disabilities.
Phase 2 from April to June will be those over 64, people with underlying conditions such as obesity and diabetes, those working or living in confined areas, those employed in essential services, teachers and other education staff.
Phase 3 from July to Sep will be those over 50, children, those living in areas with high incidence rates, pregnant women or breastfeeding mothers, those who have already had Covid-19 and then teenagers, young adults and others not included in the above in that order.

Seems pretty standard in most countries.
I think the problem with the flu vaccine, and my wife writes to an 80 year old lady in UK who still hasn't had hers, was that it was started early before they knew the prevalent strain from the far east so didn't produce as many as they normally would. They started them in Spain in the first week of October and we had ours done at the end of October, a month earlier than last year.
The Min of Health said the proposed timeline is achievable and they gave 14 million flu doses in 9 weeks.

140 doses of the CV-19 jab have been ordered for Spain which is almost 3 per head of population.
At the moment, some 40% of Spaniards have said they'd either be very wary or would refuse the vaccine but I imagine that will change once it starts getting rolled out.
 
Th

In England the Royal Voluntary Service and NHS Volunteer Responders have just been invited (got email this afternoon) to assist in giving the vaccine. You can choose to be:
  • Volunteer Vaccinator - Under the supervision of healthcare professionals, Volunteer Vaccinators will be trained to deliver a vaccination to a patient. They will also be ready to act if a patient has an adverse reaction.
  • Vaccination Care Volunteer - This role will support patients all the way through, from arrival to discharge. They will help patients get to the right place to receive their vaccination and provide first aid if anyone has a medical emergency.
  • Volunteer Patient Advocate - This role will concentrate entirely on the welfare of patients, potentially looking after people and small groups all the way through the vaccination centres. If anyone has a medical emergency, a Volunteer Patient Advocate will be able to recognise it and get help quickly.
These roles are managed by St John Ambulance and can be done alongside your existing role as an NHS Volunteer Responder. A further role as a venue steward will be available to NHS Volunteer Responders soon.

My understanding is Frontline medical and care staff first, then over 75's, then over 65's + vulnerable/at risk, then over 50's and working the way down. Its also my understanding that there is a very 'robust' plan to start this off as quickly as possible and plough through as many people as possible in the shortest time possible.
I've seen a list of priority levels a few weeks ago. Being over 60, I was group 5/6 on the list. I'll see if I can find it or I could always look on Twatter and find our I'm twerntynieefth.
 
Which everyone would give a stiff ignoring.

Except the UK, who would follow it to the letter, and severely punish any transgression.
Hopefully, the wretched little drones who "enforce" such bollocks will be the first to be given the elbow from whichever fetid branch of the local council they inhabit.

My council is currently undergoing some rather drastic financial embarassment, and some big boys and girls are being sent in to try and sort out the mess-it will be fascinating to observe the sea gap between pragmatists and the financially incontinent as to which jobs are for the chop.
 
Or, alternatively, the EU wanted more tests to prove the vaccine before jumping the gun? Like seeing the effects on over 55s which the UK forgot to do?

Whichever.

is that the same EU that demands clinical trials of human drugs known to be toxic and lethal to dogs on dogs before authorising them?
 
Was chatting to a former colleague last night, he's running some of the maths components of the various approvals. He made a couple of interesting observations.

1. the Phizer vaccine requires specialist handling (and equipment), as it needs to be stored at -70C to prevent degradation;
2. the vaccine is so novel (using mRNA) that the US FDA has never approved a vaccine of this type and structure;
3. the Phizer vaccine costs around £40/dose delivered, whereas the Moderna vaccine (in trials) will cost around £1/dose delivered (if approved). The moderna vaccine also enjoys a simplified logistics chain, as only needs to be stored at -20C.
 
However, as others have already posted, whilst we’ve been constrained by EU rules (we’re still in transition) Brexit has set us apart from the other 27 states, giving us the ability to move faster and unilaterally.

The EU27 decided to proceed at the speed if the slowest state, meaning avoidable deaths in the states that could have gone faster.

The cost of unity is avoidable deaths in some EU27 countries.
“The idea is not to be first but to have a safe and effective vaccine,” were the relevant words from Jens Spahn. Nothing up with either approach, which are both under EU rules. Don't think we're at death rates similar to first wave.

Chance you take. As long as crinklies don't start popping their clogs Boris can claim a three week win. But we should see it for what it is.
 

WightMivvi

Old-Salt
“The idea is not to be first but to have a safe and effective vaccine,” were the relevant words from Jens Spahn. Nothing up with either approach, which are both under EU rules. Don't think we're at death rates similar to first wave.

Chance you take. As long as crinklies don't start popping their clogs Boris can claim a three week win. But we should see it for what it is.
Drastic measures for drastic times.

I’m not happy with the thought of an accelerated developed vaccine. I’m not happy with the novel, never approved before, mRNA approach.

However, as the carer for a disabled loved one who has (on a good year) a high risk of a common cold developing into potentially deadly pneumonia, vaccination seems the lesser of two evils.
(It’s all to do with weak chest muscles which means mucus is not cleared out, allowing bacteria to fester deep in the lungs.)

So I’m going to have to trust the experts.

And, once that psychological rubicon (trust) is crossed, the quicker the vaccine rolls out the better.

Whilst 3 weeks may not seem long to you, for someone like me (who has been effectively imprisoned since March due to caring commitments) it’s a bloody long time.

So I will applaud the government for getting us a few weeks earlier into freedom.
 
Drastic measures for drastic times.

I’m not happy with the thought of an accelerated developed vaccine. I’m not happy with the novel, never approved before, mRNA approach.

However, as the carer for a disabled loved one who has (on a good year) a high risk of a common cold developing into potentially deadly pneumonia, vaccination seems the lesser of two evils.
(It’s all to do with weak chest muscles which means mucus is not cleared out, allowing bacteria to fester deep in the lungs.)

So I’m going to have to trust the experts.

And, once that psychological rubicon (trust) is crossed, the quicker the vaccine rolls out the better.

Whilst 3 weeks may not seem long to you, for someone like me (who has been effectively imprisoned since March due to caring commitments) it’s a bloody long time.

So I will applaud the government for getting us a few weeks earlier into freedom.
Meh, Boris, Grrrr
 
A small bit of news , whilst sipping my tea yesterday afternoon I was perusing the flying trade newspaper ( which they keep sending me , god knows why , I’ve not taught for a decade!)
Any way , on page 4 article by the border force confirming that as long as you are departing from a known airfield ( that is known to them, it can literally be your field) Light aircraft can depart from there to the continent after the 1st Jan next with absolutely no change to the current procedures .
The dammed inconvenience of brexit eh ! Grrrrr.
 
Well, at least someone's getting a chuckle out of the farce that is Brexit negotiations.

1606987686447.png


"There is something deeply British about dogging.” So goes the opinion of a Government cabinet minister, who according to the Sunday Times, also noted, possibly with a sneer: “Do Europeans even do dogging?”

'KentOnline offers the promise that a “no-deal Brexit could lead to increased dogging in Kent lay-bys”, a Great British hobby the minister says will be boosted by patriot British lorry drivers looking to alleviate the tedium of waiting in their cabs for paperwork to be sorted by engaging in traditional al fresco sex and voyeurism.

'Dogging is now Great British Dogging. Look out for it on the BBC sports channels and a celebrity version on ITV 3.'


 
Dick. The EU is buying them but the countries are responsible for the receipt and distribution. Unless you think the 340 million doses are going to end up on a desk in Brussels and be issued out like the QM stores.
Mind you, you probably do.

Greetings cock splat.

I didn't think anything like that.

I'm merely pointing out that there will be a rush of consumers (27 countries in fact) when the EU green lights any
 
So has Health Secretary apologies for lying to British people after saying the Brexit meant a quicker (emergency) approval of the vaccine?

The U.K. used EU legislation to approve it instead of waiting a few more week for (full) EU approval.

ignoring of course that it was made in the EU27

NI got its first 25,000 doses the other day. What route did it take? the shortest one Holyhead-Dublin
 
So has Health Secretary apologies for lying to British people after saying the Brexit meant a quicker (emergency) approval of the vaccine?

The U.K. used EU legislation to approve it instead of waiting a few more week for (full) EU approval.

ignoring of course that it was made in the EU27

NI got its first 25,000 doses the other day. What route did it take? the shortest one Holyhead-Dublin
I can smell your panic.
shortest route ! That the best you’ve got ?
BTW i. Hear the Dublin to Roscoff cruse is just grand in January and February .
 
I can smell your panic.
shortest route ! That the best you’ve got ?
BTW i. Hear the Dublin to Roscoff cruse is just grand in January and February .
Works both ways is what I’m pointing out. Vast majority of freight in and out of NI is via Dublin

there are now new services in place
 
So has Health Secretary apologies for lying to British people after saying the Brexit meant a quicker (emergency) approval of the vaccine?

The U.K. used EU legislation to approve it instead of waiting a few more week for (full) EU approval.

ignoring of course that it was made in the EU27

NI got its first 25,000 doses the other day. What route did it take? the shortest one Holyhead-Dublin
The UK has its own healthcare regulatory body, the MHRA. The EU has had exactly the same access to the development, test, trials and safety data as the UK so why is the EU dragging its heels over giving approval? It's not going to find out anything different to what the UK's experts have determined - the vaccine is safe to use.
 
The UK has its own healthcare regulatory body, the MHRA. The EU has had exactly the same access to the development, test, trials and safety data as the UK so why is the EU dragging its heels over giving approval? It's not going to find out anything different to what the UK's experts have determined - the vaccine is safe to use.

every EU MS has its own similar body, in Ireland it is the HPRA.

The MHRA have the vaccine on “rolling review” (temporary) approval, as any EU27 can do, it means that they don’t have all the results of the trials and they are still reviewing it. The MHRA have granded “rolling review” approval under the EU legislation that they operate (until the end of the month) under.

EMA is being more cautious and reviewing all the data.


Neither approach means it is dangerous (let’s hope it isn’t) or not effective (let’s hope it is)
 

Humperdoo

Old-Salt
Was chatting to a former colleague last night, he's running some of the maths components of the various approvals. He made a couple of interesting observations.

1. the Phizer vaccine requires specialist handling (and equipment), as it needs to be stored at -70C to prevent degradation;
2. the vaccine is so novel (using mRNA) that the US FDA has never approved a vaccine of this type and structure;
3. the Phizer vaccine costs around £40/dose delivered, whereas the Moderna vaccine (in trials) will cost around £1/dose delivered (if approved). The moderna vaccine also enjoys a simplified logistics chain, as only needs to be stored at -20C.
Once they come out of storage/transport at -70, they should have a shelf life of 5 days in the fridge. We may potentially be administering these vaccines at the start of Jan 21 as an NHS vaccination centre, decision to be made by the 18/12/20 after inspection.
 
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