The Brexit Consequences Thread

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
... which is true. Except that if the UK is so vital to the EU, deals can be struck.
But we are not - as has been proved time after time. Our Treasury OTH........
 
Erm... the laws dreamt up by the commission are in fact collaborative work by all member nations.

I've got personal experience in o e narrow area, and i can say it's far from a dictatorial process; quite the reverse. British Civil Servants were more gung ho than others and our recommendations were toned down.
There is your problem.

The other commissioners had no business "toning down" our recommendations. They should have been toned down by our MPs, in Government or in Parliament.

You don't get it do you?

I voted leave because I want our laws to be thought up by our Government and passed into laws by our MPs.

I don't want a collaborative process with people from another country, no matter how well-intentioned they may be, drafting laws that our MPs are forced to rubber-stamp because they have to pass EU legislation. They have no choice.

That is not the British process of democracy. It is not what British people expect from their Government and legislative body. We want our laws created and passed in the way allowed for by our Constitution, and by people we have voted for in our elections, and who we can hold directly responsible for those laws and that Government.

The EU method of democracy is fine for those countries that want it. I personally do not want it for my country. I feel our method of democracy is a better fit for the people of this nation. It is what we know.
 
The voting system since the WTD has changed to majority voting so the UK votes will mean very little. Therefore in future there is extremely little chance of concessions being offered in return for abstention as it won't matter to the Commission. Huge elements of the EU are dependent on EU Grants so will vote any way the commission wants.

Others close to the pay in/receive line will also follow the EU commission's directions so they are not financially hit.

The EU Commission have been manoeuvring themselves into a position whereby their word is unchallengeable - they are very close to this goal.

Thankfully we won't be part of this psuedo-dictatorship much longer!
You mean the Qualified Majority system that gives EU states with larger populations, such as the UK, even more say in decisions?
 
No, our MPs rubber-stamp laws that are dreamt up in the back-rooms of Brussels by the commission. They dictate what the laws should be, and pass them to the national parliaments, where the national MPs turn them into laws for their country.

I, along with everyone else who voted to leave, want the laws to be dreamt up by our Government, and passed into law by our MPs, in the way we have done for centuries. It is our way of practising democracy. I don't want the EU way of making laws thank you.

No, you cannot eat principles. But I don't think the EU will want to starve us. You don't ever try to starve a nation with a military tradition.
Keep telling yourself that if it makes you happy!
 
Keep telling yourself that if it makes you happy!
But I'm going to get what I want. We have won.

That makes me happy.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
No, you cannot eat principles. But I don't think the EU will want to starve us. You don't ever try to starve a nation with a military tradition.
Hear hear!
Plus anyone who thinks we will go without is an idiot, the sort that cant live without a soya machilatte whatever the feck that is?
 
Erm... the laws dreamt up by the commission are in fact collaborative work by all member nations.

I've got personal experience in o e narrow area, and i can say it's far from a dictatorial process; quite the reverse. British Civil Servants were more gung ho than others and our recommendations were toned down.


This explains how decisions are made by the European Commission. Very little input by the Council. there is also a link showing how European Union laws trump UK laws.

You underline my point about how embarrassing it is that so many folk don't really know how the European Union functions, yet you tell us it would be a really good idea not to leave 'because'.
 
There is your problem.

The other commissioners had no business "toning down" our recommendations. They should have been toned down by our MPs, in Government or in Parliament.
Of course they have business doing so. We're talking about communal decisions as to what a Directive, affecting all member states, should say.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Oh... but i thought we'd be getting amazing deals after Brexit because of our huge market for European goods?

Which is it?
There is a huge gap between the realities of trade, which will go on, and the ideology of the Commission which is willing to cut off its own nose to further the ambitions of Union!
 


This explains how decisions are made by the European Commission. Very little input by the Council. there is also a link showing how European Union laws trump UK laws.

You underline my point about how embarrassing it is that so many folk don't really know how the European Union functions, yet you tell us it would be a really good idea not to leave 'because'.

The drafting is done by Member state/EU civil servants in much the same way as our domestic legislation is drafted by our CS. It's a process with very wide consultation.

The decision making process is not the drafting.

The directives aren't "dreamt up by the Commission".
 
Hear hear!
Plus anyone who thinks we will go without is an idiot, the sort that cant live without a soya machilatte whatever the feck that is?
Well you know more about whatever it is than me! Never heard of it, is it something that you urban elites eat?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Well you know more about whatever it is than me! Never heard of it, is it something that you urban elites eat?
Apparently the bil knows someone that drinks coffee the heathen
 

Truxx

LE
But didn't vote against and received a few major concessions during negotiations.
Not so.

The directive was imposed upon us in 1993. At the time Britain was not covered by social rules because John Major, had opted out of the so-called Social Chapter. But the Commission pushed through the legislation on the grounds that it was a health and safety issue. Although the government took the Commission to the European Court of Justice arguing it was overstepping its authority, it lost.
The WTD is effectively meaningless in UK. Because of the opt outs.
I was referring more about the way it was imposed.

Although if you think that it is meaningless try running a haulage concern. Or a hospital Even the Germans took the EU to court over it.
 
Not so.

The directive was imposed upon us in 1993. At the time Britain was not covered by social rules because John Major, had opted out of the so-called Social Chapter. But the Commission pushed through the legislation on the grounds that it was a health and safety issue. Although the government took the Commission to the European Court of Justice arguing it was overstepping its authority, it lost.
I know of the court case that contended the legal basis of the whole thing but again, the UK did not vote against it and through negotiations (we had negotiators who could actually negotiate back then), the UK gained some significant concessions.
 
Not so.

The directive was imposed upon us in 1993. At the time Britain was not covered by social rules because John Major, had opted out of the so-called Social Chapter. But the Commission pushed through the legislation on the grounds that it was a health and safety issue. Although the government took the Commission to the European Court of Justice arguing it was overstepping its authority, it lost.

WTD is enforced as H&S law under the imaginatively titled "working time regulations 1998".

Regulation 5(1) means the whole thing is,, for the vast majority of British workers, meaningless.

I was an HSE Inspector for nigh on ten years; we didn't even bother asking about hours, no point.


No prosecution in last 10 years... it's unenforceable.
 

Latest Threads

Top