The Black Hand Gang - Black Powder burners only!

#1
As requested, I have started a thread for the eyebrowless and soot smutted black powder burners...

I shoot a variety of BP weapons including Brown bess, Snider, Chassepot and a variety of shotguns.. oh and a small cannon..

I hate Pyrodex - no substitutes allowed!

A quick question to start the ball rolling...

I have beeninvolved in a discussion about licencing of Muskets.. My force considers them to be shotguns, and have no problem with me shooting ball out of them.

Other forces seem to get their knickers in a twist about loading less than 5 shots..! What's your experience?
 
#4
Discussion of beards, patched weskits, and steam engines is also allowed!

HE117 have you tried berdan primers in the chassepot cartidges? Tried them in the Dreyse and I get far more reliable ignition.
 

TheIronDuke

ADC
Book Reviewer
#5
I've got engines that will remove your arm never mind your eyebrows. And one of them blackens anything within 10 yards. And it goes BANG every five seconds or so. Can I play?
 
#7
Discussion of beards, patched weskits, and steam engines is also allowed!

HE117 have you tried berdan primers in the chassepot cartidges? Tried them in the Dreyse and I get far more reliable ignition.
No ... just top hats..

Berdan primers are not that easy to get this side of the old trousers.. I tend to keep my stash for .310 cadet and obsolete nitro express rounds..
 
#8
I've got engines that will remove your arm never mind your eyebrows. And one of them blackens anything within 10 yards. And it goes BANG every five seconds or so. Can I play?
Hmm - got the Wankel to fire up last night.. did a very good impression of a Deltic by filling the workshop with black smoke...

HOWEVER - this is NOT for this thread... heerrumph..
 
#9
After scanning a few traditional paper cartridge making methods for minié rifles I decided to give it a try myself go have an idea of how it is to load with paper cartridges without seeking historical exactitude. The method and measurements are for my particular .69" conical which is a replica of the French 1863 minié:




Materials:
•1 pencil
•1 ruler
•2 rectangles of standard newspaper 110mm wide x 120m long
•1 metal sleeve 20mm diameter x 120mm long (sawn off bit of old broom handle)
•2 miniés
•BP
•BP grease warmed to a liquid state

A) On both rectangles, draw a line 20mm from a short edge. On only one of rectangles, turn it over and draw a line 35mm from the same short edge.


B) Turn the two line rectangle over again and place the minié at one edge lined up with the 20mm line and put the sleeve over the nose of the minié.


C) Roll it up and twist the 20mm of paper protruding and push the twist into the minié base cavity. This then forms the outer cartridge case and paper patch (two layers).


D) Take the second rectangle, line the end with the 20mm line and roll up. Once again twist the 20mm of paper protruding and use the second minié to push the twist into the sleeve. This forms the powder tube with its distal end shaped to the nose of the minié once inserted in the cartridge..



E) Insert the powder tube, still mounted on the sleeve, into the cartridge tube, pushing it down firmly onto the minié. Remove the sleeve.


F) Dip lube the cartridge base and let dry. The 35mm line is visible on the outside of the cartridge, this is a handy visual reference to allow you to dip the cartridge into the warm tube to the right depth (beginning of the ogive curvature).

G) Once dry, fill the powder tube with your charge and fold the top over. In my case 65grm of de Swiss#3 (approx. service charge)



One thing to notice is that the edge of the cartridge paper tube is not glued down. This is not out of laziness...see below

On the range:
-Open powder tube (preferably with ones pearly whites)
-Pour in powder.
-Reverse cartridge and push it in the muzzle until the grease is level with the muzzle rim.
-Take the edge of the paper tube and turn your hand as if to unwind the paper, this causes the excess paper to tear neatly at the muzzle rim.
- Ram the minié home (nice greasy friction fit).
-Cap on and fire!

Here are the results at 50m with a few test cartridges:


Shot from my big Swiss M1777/42/59 Minié rifle (.69").


You can get a good rythm going and imagine yourself as part of the thin red line!

The measurements are obviously particular to the projectile being used.
 
#10
I like the square cavities C-M - is that original?

I have a set of templates for cutting the Enfield cartridge.. it was quite complex with three wrappers and razor cuts etc..

I have not really used it much as my mould throws bullets which are too large. Onece I have perfected my mould making techniques, I will make some Pritchett (flat sided) bullets and see how they go...
 
#12
I like the square cavities C-M - is that original?

I have a set of templates for cutting the Enfield cartridge.. it was quite complex with three wrappers and razor cuts etc..

I have not really used it much as my mould throws bullets which are too large. Onece I have perfected my mould making techniques, I will make some Pritchett (flat sided) bullets and see how they go...
The bullet mould is modern, but it is a historical design. I ordered it from Denmark, the Danes bought shed loads of old French 1822T muskets, rifled them and fitted long range sights (1861 Perkussionsriffel) so used this bullet quite extensively. The Swiss had a similar bullet externally but with a shallow conical cavity.

The original French design had a stepped three sided pyramidal cavity but there were problems with splits at the corners, the square cavity has shallower corners.
 
#13
I have a couple of 1853 pattern Enfields, one of which is a modern repro that I used to use quite regularly until quite recent, when I changed job and lost access to the land I used to use.

In answer to your question, my local force is the same as yours and I hold them on a shotgun licence and just have to get a black powder licence on top, that has expired and I never bothered to renew.
 
#14
I'm looking into getting into black powder shooting, unfortunately I can't find a range in my local area that doesn't seem to be run by the grumpiest bunch of so and so's I've ever come across. Still, I've got my shotgun cert and I'm looking at smooth-bore flint-locks or percussion guns so I may be on here from time to time.
 
#17
I'm looking into getting into black powder shooting, unfortunately I can't find a range in my local area that doesn't seem to be run by the grumpiest bunch of so and so's I've ever come across.

Ahhh you've already found the black powder shooters then. :)

I joke of course...once you get into it they are more often than not one of the the easiest bunch to get along with.

It's a good observation though & dosen't surprise me in the least, there can be some really grumpy buggers in clubs thinking they are doing the shooting world a favour. There's always going to be rivalry within shooting, seems unavoidable I'm afraid. It can be a bit daunting getting into a club or even finding one which caters for your intrests, but there will be one so keep plugging away.

Good luck with finding a suitable club.
 
#18
Welcome and good luck with your search!

If smoothbores are classed as shotguns, what are rifled muzzleloaders classed as in the yUK?
If the rifles are antique, and held as a curio - none.

If they are modern reproductions or they are antique but you intend to use them, they are classed as Section 1 firearms, and you need to put them on an FAC..
 
#19
Anyone going to the Imperial Hysterical?

July 7-8 @ Bisley...

Balloonatic.. worth a visit - arms fair with vintage gun porn and an opportunity to find a club...
 
#20
If smoothbores are classed as shotguns, what are rifled muzzleloaders classed as in the yUK?

UK Section 1 is similar the French 1ere et 4eme Cat. combined.

The antiques are similar to 8eme Cat. until you decide to shoot it as HE117 points out then by law they get shifted onto a Sect. 1 licence therefore becoming like the French 1ere & 4eme. Once you decide not to shoot it then it can be removed from Sect. 1 and reverts back to it's original antique status. At keast I think it's still that way?*

*Based on my limited 10 year old UK firearms regs knowledge.
 

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