The bigotry of low expectations.

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I'm sure absent and/or ******** fathers play a huge role. But the key point was early age, a decent kid can be shown two futures, one flipping burgers the other rolling round in your BM with gold dripping off you.

Remove option 2 and the mind is focused on not flipping burgers and better yourself. Basically we are legislatively funding a huge feral underclass by making their 'job' vastly higher paying than their decent compatriots alternatives.

Some will always gravitate to crime so lets focus on them. Drug laws don't protect anyone other than drug dealers.
Or you could try hard at school but that's culturally sneered at uncool.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Ooooooh! Spotter mode on.

Seeing the wheeled thing on the defence splodge, I thought some wag decided to get ahead of the curve and sneak in a subliminal BOXER...

No.

It's a frikking Stryker MGS...
Fule everyone nos it's a tank!
 

endure

GCM
I'm sure absent and/or ******** fathers play a huge role. But the key point was early age, a decent kid can be shown two futures, one flipping burgers the other rolling round in your BM with gold dripping off you.

Remove option 2 and the mind is focused on not flipping burgers and better yourself. Basically we are legislatively funding a huge feral underclass by making their 'job' vastly higher paying than their decent compatriots alternatives.

Some will always gravitate to crime so lets focus on them. Drug laws don't protect anyone other than drug dealers.
Focusing on crime requires those who live in areas that are blighted by it to stop, allowing it in part to be hidden or protected by making such places, unsafe for criminals by cooperating with authorities, rather than the codes of silence for 'reasons', that makes prosecuting crime in many cases almost impossible.

While it is realistically always going to be hard to totally eradicate all crime small or large, that would make the such areas much better, there is much to say that while American policing has not always the best, "the broken windows policy" did improve New York. despite criticisms of it as a policy.


These are just two links are the top two results of 'DuckDuckgoing' "the broken windows policy".

For years, police in Newark, N.J. regularly handed out citations to residents for minor offenses.

Known as “blue summonses,” the citations were intended to curb crime in a city rife with violence. Officers who racked up high tallies were rewarded with better assignments and overtime, according to police and federal officials.

Ultimately, police and residents said, the practice damaged the Newark PD’s relationship with the minority community and did little to reduce crime. It also helped lead to federal intervention in the police department last year.
be sure to read the full article.


What is Broken Windows Policing?
The broken windows model of policing was first described in 1982 in a seminal article by Wilson and Kelling. Briefly, the model focuses on the importance of disorder (e.g., broken windows) in generating and sustaining more serious crime. Disorder is not directly linked to serious crime; instead, disorder leads to increased fear and withdrawal from residents, which then allows more serious crime to move in because of decreased levels of informal social control.

The police can play a key role in disrupting this process. If they focus in on disorder and less serious crime in neighborhoods that have not yet been overtaken by serious crime, they can help reduce fear and resident withdrawal. Promoting higher levels of informal social control will help residents themselves take control of their neighborhood and prevent serious crime from infiltrating
While an imperfect policy, i think its a decent place to start, it does require though an area to both want to see improvement and a will to be policed to succeed. As I stated previously "making such places, unsafe for criminals by cooperating with authorities, rather than the codes of silence for 'reasons" is key.


This brings us us to the politics, that many areas of poverty and depravation are and have been historically held and controlled by the political left, is something that boggles my and many others I am sure minds.

It is much the same in the US, that many of the cities that have seen riot and looting, are run by those who are part of or aligned with the Democratic Party who have elected official's in high office, who have the same immutable characteristics as those who exclaim its is discrimination that holds us down.

Why do such people continue to vote for such politicians, on 'both sides of the pond' is it that they. Are as tribal as they claim others are and thus they should vote for a party that tells them its not their fault, rather its the white capitalist system.

Clearly given how long such areas have been under democratic control at the state level, and 8 years of a democratic president prior to President Trump being elected. Chicago is a war zone, black on black death rate that make sickening reading year on year.

But let us look just at the UK though, how many places have constantly voted for labour run councils, yet are still the same year on year. Racial tensions, poor prospects, over stretched public services, and race baiting used at every turn to hold on to power. Those in power dont want good policing they want special policing yet would discount trying a broken windows policy as it would be unfair to the poor oppressed graffiti artist, who is empowered by tagging.

That there are pockets of conservatives councils in such areas, which means that not everyone is buy that piffle, particularly when you consider that London is only 44 percent white. But the stereotype pushed by the left is that the conservatives party is only for and only represents whites, and those who are not white are coconuts which is pure racism. That these blue pockets are so small and the Red areas so large maintains such a fiction.





While the fall of the RED Wall in December 2019 and could change some things, that is more dependant of how much the Covid 19 pandemic has thrown the most massive spanner ever seen into ability of a UK Government to be able to change things, in a way that all should benefit. Rather at present it is only able to focus on just fire fighting to stop the system collapsing into chaos.

Also note, that while I have voted conservative all my life I dont find the modern conservative party hold to real conservative ideology, just as Blair was accused of being Blue Labour, the conservative part has since Cameron become Red Conservative but that is not what this thread is about.
 
Linking voting to tax always seems to be overlooked, however with the raising of the threshold and how many have been spared paying being constantly trumpeted, perhaps making sure only those who pay or have paid sufficent tax (I.e in receipt of state pension) should vote?

There was a principle once that political franchise had to be earnt, not just passed out at birth. Is it worth revisiting?
Linking voting to tax always seems to be overlooked, however with the raising of the threshold and how many have been spared paying being constantly trumpeted, perhaps making sure only those who pay or have paid sufficent tax (I.e in receipt of state pension) should vote?

There was a principle once that political franchise had to be earnt, not just passed out at birth. Is it worth revisiting?
No.
 
Not everywhere...

Indeed but this seems more of a case that without the efforts of "Ray Lewis, the controversial former deputy mayor of London who runs Eastside Young Leaders' Academy in Plaistow" would he have succeeded. I would tend to believe from reading that article that he was determined to put in the work, to get himself out of a life of little opportunity, so I would not be surprised if he did not. Sadly I doubt he is lauded for doing so by many of his cohort.

This is the problem he and others like him make up such a small number, while sadly many more deliberatly turn there noses up at education. Why they choose too should be the question.

The offer from Eton was unconditional, he explains, but he achieved his predicted GCSE grades of A*s, As and Bs anyway.
Razak's story is also a triumph for Lewis, whose after-school club for 90 wayward youths to "perform a hand-brake turn on their lives" so impressed Boris Johnson. Lewis's "tough love" bootcamp-style drills are regarded by some as contentious, but Boris hoped to replicate his Eastside Academy model — begun in 2002 and offering lessons in English, maths, etiquette and leadership — across London. That, of course, was before Lewis stepped down after being accused of financial irregularities and dishonesty in a 10-year-old church file that suddenly surfaced, allegations that, it turned out, were never put by the church to Lewis to explain or defend, and which he strenuously denies.
A rather interesting read is a July 2008 article in the independent...
So is Ray Lewis a hero or villain?
The deputy mayor of London was hailed as a leader for troubled black youngsters, then forced to quit after allegations surfaced from his past.
Paul Vallely investigates the record of the man cast aside
 
Or you could try hard at school but that's culturally sneered at uncool.
Interesting point. Having a father who was occasionally there because of army life, I made calculation he was there for about 50% of the time by the time I joined up At the age of 17 and we were not always on the best of terms. For me School in this country was, I considered, hostile territory, but under those circumstances one grew up rather fast. The realisation that complaints would elicit nothing. But I admired my dad like nothing else and the concept of letting him down was unthinkable.
 
I was tempted to mention the Nordic attitude but they are rather outliers regarding social models and Taxation in some part compared with the UK much of Europe and America. That said as you point out they regardless still have a criminal class and tramps.

I dont think that "we" modern western society can do the same without broad agreement that as a society "we" must be prepared too sacrifice some 'sacred cows'. That both the media and political class of left and the right, for differing reasons are both to stupid and cowardly to talk about, let alone propose doing so is why.
Nordic society, culture and outlook tended to be pretty homogenous in the past, giving the concept a bit of a leg up. That's beginning to change with the influx other cultures and they're beginning to experience similar problems as the rest of Europe are having. Swedish colleague is out in the sticks and pretty much unaffected, but his missus refuses to go to the larger centres and won't take the kids there.

She's Filipina but has gone full Swedish and out Swede's her neighbours at every turn. The kids are under a lot of pressure from her to get their shit together and outperforming the neighbour kids at school is her mission.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Interesting point. Having a father who was occasionally there because of army life, I made calculation he was there for about 50% of the time by the time I joined up At the age of 17 and we were not always on the best of terms. For me School in this country was, I considered, hostile territory, but under those circumstances one grew up rather fast. The realisation that complaints would elicit nothing. But I admired my dad like nothing else and the concept of letting him down was unthinkable.
Particularly within the Afro-Caribbean community, school is uncool. Contrast with the Asian population, whether Oriental or Indian subcontinent.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Focusing on crime requires those who live in areas that are blighted by it to stop, allowing it in part to be hidden or protected by making such places, unsafe for criminals by cooperating with authorities, rather than the codes of silence for 'reasons', that makes prosecuting crime in many cases almost impossible.

While it is realistically always going to be hard to totally eradicate all crime small or large, that would make the such areas much better, there is much to say that while American policing has not always the best, "the broken windows policy" did improve New York. despite criticisms of it as a policy.


These are just two links are the top two results of 'DuckDuckgoing' "the broken windows policy".

be sure to read the full article.




While an imperfect policy, i think its a decent place to start, it does require though an area to both want to see improvement and a will to be policed to succeed. As I stated previously "making such places, unsafe for criminals by cooperating with authorities, rather than the codes of silence for 'reasons" is key.


This brings us us to the politics, that many areas of poverty and depravation are and have been historically held and controlled by the political left, is something that boggles my and many others I am sure minds.

It is much the same in the US, that many of the cities that have seen riot and looting, are run by those who are part of or aligned with the Democratic Party who have elected official's in high office, who have the same immutable characteristics as those who exclaim its is discrimination that holds us down.

Why do such people continue to vote for such politicians, on 'both sides of the pond' is it that they. Are as tribal as they claim others are and thus they should vote for a party that tells them its not their fault, rather its the white capitalist system.

Clearly given how long such areas have been under democratic control at the state level, and 8 years of a democratic president prior to President Trump being elected. Chicago is a war zone, black on black death rate that make sickening reading year on year.

But let us look just at the UK though, how many places have constantly voted for labour run councils, yet are still the same year on year. Racial tensions, poor prospects, over stretched public services, and race baiting used at every turn to hold on to power. Those in power dont want good policing they want special policing yet would discount trying a broken windows policy as it would be unfair to the poor oppressed graffiti artist, who is empowered by tagging.

That there are pockets of conservatives councils in such areas, which means that not everyone is buy that piffle, particularly when you consider that London is only 44 percent white. But the stereotype pushed by the left is that the conservatives party is only for and only represents whites, and those who are not white are coconuts which is pure racism. That these blue pockets are so small and the Red areas so large maintains such a fiction.





While the fall of the RED Wall in December 2019 and could change some things, that is more dependant of how much the Covid 19 pandemic has thrown the most massive spanner ever seen into ability of a UK Government to be able to change things, in a way that all should benefit. Rather at present it is only able to focus on just fire fighting to stop the system collapsing into chaos.

Also note, that while I have voted conservative all my life I dont find the modern conservative party hold to real conservative ideology, just as Blair was accused of being Blue Labour, the conservative part has since Cameron become Red Conservative but that is not what this thread is about.
A problem is that all of the good is undone by politicians such as Diane Abbott, who will make groundless pronouncements about institutional racism and police brutality, etc. with the aim of garnering votes from at least a percentage of the populations in areas such as these.

When the 'responsible' in society find it hip to be 'anti-establishment' (which actually means anti-progress, despite considering themselves to be progressive), you've got real problems and hurdles to overcome.
 
Are you happy being compelled to contribute for another persons child. The social services budget, is under constant stress what would you cut to increase it?

If there was an initiative to pay people £1000 to be sterilised then it would attract the attention of all the thick chavs who'll do anything for a bit of money as they act impulsively and are incapable of long-term planning.

Unfortunately this wouldn't work because of SJW screeching about everyone's right to breed.
 
The problem with the drug dealer 'lifestyle' is how early it kicks in. Many by 9 or 10 are seeing big brother or cousin in new trainers or with a flashy bike and thinking I want that. By the time they are 12 or 13 they are acting as lookouts and then progress to dealing. All the time having drilled into their head they have to be ruthless, always front up and generally act in a manner that works for dealers but makes you unemployable and unschoolable.

So bright kids who at 10 could have potentially been great contributors are fecked for life by 12.

Only way I can see to solve it is legalise drugs. Some kids will be little shits whatever so they will still go out and mug and steal, but the drug trade has provable revenue so if a dealer says to a bright kid look i'm making five k a week, week in week out, there's the wheels, there's the pad, there's the wedge to prove it, toughen up, come work for me and that will be you in 5 years time...it works.

Remove the revenue stream and you wipe out the dealers and the kids can focus on trying to get the best job they can which in many cases will be minimum wage but that still pays better than nothing if dealing is no longer an option.
I strongly recommend you read the first "Freakonomics" () book, specifically the chapter "Why drug dealers still live with their mums". It exposes the fallacy of the huge wealth opportunities for drug dealing, where the mere foot soldiers (actual transactions) earn a relatively low amount with a very high risk. The idea of flash cars and glamorous lifestyles are only for those further up the food chain. The reality is these foot soldiers would earn similar, if not more, doing legal work, with less risk, however they don't have the suitable role model to guide them along.

Mandatory reading when trying to understand the drug dealer life.
 
£30K is fcuk all , it would pissed up the wall and back in the treasury after a few weeks.
I think for £30k you would have a lot of middle class couples cashing in to clear a chunk of their mortgage or to buy a new car.
I know I would! But it would not have the desired effect or reducing unplanned pregnancies by those who can not afford them.
 
Last edited:

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
If there was an initiative to pay people £1000 to be sterilised then it would attract the attention of all the thick chavs who'll do anything for a bit of money as they act impulsively and are incapable of long-term planning.

Unfortunately this wouldn't work because of SJW screeching about everyone's right to breed.
Yeah but balance that against revitalising JD Sports the high street economy.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I strongly recommend you read the first "Freakonomics" () book, specifically the chapter "Why drug dealers still live with their mums". It exposes the fallacy of the huge wealth opportunities for drug dealing, where the mere foot soldiers (actual transactions) earn a relatively low amount with a very high risk. The idea of flash cars and glamorous lifestyles are only for those further up the food chain. The reality is these foot soldiers would earn similar, if not more, doing legal work, with less risk, however they don't have the suitable role model to guide them along.

Mandatory reading when trying to understand the drug dealer life.
Absolutely second that in this regard.
 
I strongly recommend you read the first "Freakonomics" () book, specifically the chapter "Why drug dealers still live with their mums". It exposes the fallacy of the huge wealth opportunities for drug dealing, where the mere foot soldiers (actual transactions) earn a relatively low amount with a very high risk. The idea of flash cars and glamorous lifestyles are only for those further up the food chain. The reality is these foot soldiers would earn similar, if not more, doing legal work, with less risk, however they don't have the suitable role model to guide them along.

Mandatory reading when trying to understand the drug dealer life.
I'm fully aware of that thank you. High level dealing like football and rapping is mainly a dream. But get the ten year old and he will believe it. That's the problem.
 
Top