The bigotry of low expectations.

[halo_jones]

Not my best post but...

Indeed the 'Left' have on for decades on one hand said that discrimination is a terrible thing, while at the same time pushing positive 'discrimination' as a way to end discrimination.

As you say "Education, family values, strong role models, opportunity and support from the wider community all help to raise people out of poverty and promote social mobility but it takes generations to see the benefits." is the way out of both poverty and crime, I think we can agree that government of all stripes in both the UK and in the USA, both federal and state, have for at least the last 30 years have funded from the TAX base promoted polices that will affect such changes.

One could say that the left and the right have a differing approaches, but the bottom, line money has and is been spent but if one is to believe the narratives, being spread by some on the left, activist and various media organisations Its always just racism.

That regardless of all of this investment of money, resources and time both in the UK and USA, is that white people who make up the majority of the TAX base just hate all black people, and want to see them murdered in the streets. I think we can both agree that would be a ridiculous notion.

So why is it that in both the UK and the US that areas that have a majority non white ethnic make up have issues. How much more money should we pour into such areas. How much more go to the front of the line based on ethnicity is required, to make a minority equal to a majority.

Which of course would solve everything, which is the 'bigotry of low expectations' shown by many of those on the left who want equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity.

The simple truth is that much of getting oneself out of a bad life situation requires, more personal effort and desire, rather than a government handout or a ticket to the front of a line. But that does not suit the race baiting narrative of the left and others who want to tear down society.

Try a little Larry Elder...

It's worth getting your hands on a book called 'Among the hoods' written by Harriet Sergeant, right wing think tank researcher and occasional Daily Mail columnist.

She spent 3 years with a South London gang and became absolutely furious about the way they were treated. Missing or bad parents, taken into care with a different indifferent social worker every couple of months, deserted by the education system. She makes no apology for their often appalling behaviour but lays out good reasons why they behave like they do.

Or you could just watch season 4 of The Wire and treat it as a documentary rather than a cop show. No parents, surrounded by gangster from an early age etc.

I've no idea what the answer is but carrying on doing the same thing and hoping for change seems a bit futile.

Yes i have heard of and probably read some of Harriet Sergeant, but I suspect that i dont need to read the book as, I doubt she can address the core issue, which is quite simply that some people should not breed, but they do. So until that is dealt with we are all just pissing money down the drain, and increasing the number of the the damaged and the feral wasters, not to mention the path towards criminality that is constainly feed into by uncontrolled breeding.

For context, my niece who is mid twenties is one i class as a feral waster despite having every normal opportunity, given to her how much are you prepared to pony up in TAX's to give her 'support'. Last year she earned herself a short term in prison, 6 month sentence out in 3 for assault and criminal, she could not even be bothered to attend her parole so duly a warrant was issued and she was returned to finish her sentence. So how much are you prepared to pony up in TAX's to give her 'more support' when she frankly is not bothered.

Adding to the cost to the public purse she has already 'pissed down the drain' she is now once again pregnant despite having two children removed from her by social services, that was many month before she decided to commit an prison able offences. So again how much are you prepared to pony up in TAX's to give her 'more support' when she frankly is not bothered. I have little doubt she will ever be a productive member of society, so how much should society continue to invest in her, crossing their fingers that this time she will change. When the reality is she has no intention of and what real consequnces will she suffer.

Now granted she was not born in a city, that has much more depravation than the part of Devon we now live in, but my family roots are the east end of London and working class. So I know the issues of criminality and depravation, and being poor and being taught that stealing and criminality was not the right thing to do.

There is only one way to reduce some of that burden, by having her sterilised, that at least would stop her breeding, more cases for the public purse to have to deal with. Remember this public purse she enjoys such largess of is not contributed to by just the rich, its coming from the same pockets as the less well off, including you?

Are you happy being compelled to contribute for another persons child. The social services budget, is under constant stress what would you cut to increase it?

I always enjoy reading your replies, they make me suspect you are involved in politics or teach it.

I totally agree that in order to succeed in life you need personal motivation to better ones self and the notion of equality of out come is not realistic (but this is mainly pushed by the more radical left).

To answer your question on if over the last 30 years have we seen improvements in black communities due to state investments, I would say that we have.
The black middle-class would be a good metric to use. I know the left don't really take about the middle class that much, but I think it is a good gauge on how well a demographic is doing.
In the US the % of black households that are middle class is approx 40%, the national average is approx 43%. That is a great results given that social mobility for black house holds in America only really started in the 1960's.

Currently black households are slightly under the national average for upper middle class and upper class, but I suspect this gap will be closed as middle class families accumulate wealth. The middle class can look after themselves.

The real kicker is 26% of black households that are poor. This is where we should be targeting funding regardless of skin colour. Help the poor get out of poverty and enrich the working class.

Sorry if I sound like a One Nation Conservative instead of a radical socialist on this.

Yes there is a growing black middle class, do you think they all made it because of their personal efforts and sacrifices or because they are diversity hires. I suspect if you where to suggest that they only made it in to the middle class because 'old whitey' gave them 'special treatment', they would tell you to fcuk right off and swivel.

Indeed I would be happy to suggest that they got there in the main by hard work, the same as every other family that worked there way up the ladder, I meet and served with many as well as under them during my service. Would you agree that many of this cohort include serving and EX policemen, fireman, military, and many other occupations, also may consider themselves politically of the right, and also despair at those who are feckless and feral, regardless of ethnicity.

The "The real kicker is 26% of black households that are poor", how many are baby mama's, much like my niece. Remember they also are funded by the public purse that is not contributed to by just the rich, its coming from the same pockets as the less well off, including you? Are you happy being compelled to contribute for another persons child.

Are you happy being compelled to contribute for another persons child. The social services budget, is under constant stress what would you cut to increase it?

 

[Daz]

Not my best post but...


Are you happy being compelled to contribute for another persons child. The social services budget, is under constant stress what would you cut to increase it?

Bugger all, to be honest, what we do need is a root and branch reform of the system, the current Government has started with a few small steps in the right direction, such a capping the total amount of benefits that can be claimed, along with restricting child benefit to two kids (with some exceptions) but even these small measures have received a large number of negative press covers, especially from the likes of the Guardian, left-wing commentators and so-called charities and think-tanks.

 

[FourZeroCharlie]

With a CV like that, your niece is a shoo-in for Dep Leader of the Labour Party

 

[76mill]

Bugger all, to be honest, what we do need is a root and branch reform of the system, the current Government has started with a few small steps in the right direction, such a capping the total amount of benefits that can be claimed, along with restricting child benefit to two kids (with some exceptions) but even these small measures have received a large number of negative press covers, especially from the likes of the Guardian, left-wing commentators and so-called charities and think-tanks.

Having observed some rather telling verbal eviscerations by one or two Cabinet Ministers towards the lefty luvvies, and their subsequent horror at being slapped down, perhaps it's time for some post Covid brutality?

With an 80 seat majority, I doubt that Boris binning the BBC with say two weeks notice would go unappreciated- from personal experience, my eclectic social group are to a man or woman ( no other genders involved, well boo hoo) generally disgusted with the bile, bias and quite frankly, utter shite they have spewed for the last few months.
Go commercial you cnuts and let's see how you fare.

A root and branch chainsaw fest of so called charities: a minimum of 90% of your income must be proved to be beneficial to those who you claim to be charitying ( if that's a real word).
Prove it or lose your charitable status.

Trespass laws to be made a criminal not civil offence.

Oh, and any cabinet minister who doesn't use the phrase " Oh do f*ck off you cnut you're talking shi*te" at least once in the dying days of the BBC will lose their pension.

 

[halo_jones]

With a CV like that, your niece is a shoo-in for Dep Leader of the Labour Party

I sadly have little doubt that if she could be bothered to vote, that she would vote for anyone who thinks that she is not at fault... and continue to let her live that way.

I dont have anything to do with her and I wont, but most sadly for me my brother, her father is trapped by not being able to do that. I understand why, I will always be ready to help him and him alone.

 

[halo_jones]

Bugger all, to be honest, what we do need is a root and branch reform of the system, the current Government has started with a few small steps in the right direction, such a capping the total amount of benefits that can be claimed, along with restricting child benefit to two kids (with some exceptions) but even these small measures have received a large number of negative press covers, especially from the likes of the Guardian, left-wing commentators and so-called charities and think-tanks.

I could be a start, sadly until the apologists for those that consider society should allow those who put nothing in to take as they wish nothing will change. There is a need for much reform, sadly as shown increasingly by many of the political and media class who are weak in both character and and thought, they will continue to undermine any move too do so.

This is how empires have always fallen. Given what we know of the history of mankind, it never ceases to make me wonder why, those who have had a university education seem to have learnt nothing. While decade after decade the barbarians at the gate never went away, nor did those who will open the gates under the cover of darkness to let them in

The riots and protests that have occurred this last week or so, stoked by those who want to burn the system and society down, never answer the question 'what would you have replace it.

I was advised to watch "season 4 of The Wire" by @endure as a documentary! Well there have been plenty of cop shows both in the US and here in the UK. That are much the same in showing the harsh reality of day to day life for some in the cities, particulary amougnst those who CHOOSE to become criminals.

Never addressed through, is the reality that if you want to live in amongst a cohort that lives by 'snitches get stitches' dont talk to the police, and at the same time accuse all and sundry of ignoring their plight because racism. I ask...

"Are you happy being compelled to contribute for policing both your borough through council tax but also to pay for another borough as well. The police budget, is under constant stress what would you cut to increase it?"

 

[Turret_Monster]

Are you happy being compelled to contribute to the highways budget if you don’t drive a car?

Are you happy being compelled to contribute to the NHS if you‘re fit and healthy and can afford private healthcare?

You might as well dismantle the state now and return to Victorian values of self help - all fine and dandy for those born with a decent start in life, but a self-perpetuating shitstorm for those less fortunate.

 

[Bubbles_Barker]

I could be a start, sadly until the apologists for those that consider society should allow those who put nothing in to take as they wish nothing will change. There is a need for much reform, sadly as shown increasingly by many of the political and media class who are weak in both character and and thought, they will continue to undermine any move too do so.

This is how empires have always fallen. Given what we know of the history of mankind, it never ceases to make me wonder why, those who have had a university education seem to have learnt nothing. While decade after decade the barbarians at the gate never went away, nor did those who will open the gates under the cover of darkness to let them in

The riots and protests that have occurred this last week or so, stoked by those who want to burn the system and society down, never answer the question 'what would you have replace it.

I was advised to watch "season 4 of The Wire" by @endure as a documentary! Well there have been plenty of cop shows both in the US and here in the UK. That are much the same in showing the harsh reality of day to day life for some in the cities, particulary amougnst those who CHOOSE to become criminals.

Never addressed through, is the reality that if you want to live in amongst a cohort that lives by 'snitches get stitches' dont talk to the police, and at the same time accuse all and sundry of ignoring their plight because racism. I ask...

"Are you happy being compelled to contribute for policing both your borough through council tax but also to pay for another borough as well. The police budget, is under constant stress what would you cut to increase it?"

Is there a ‘******* hilarious’ button?

 

[halo_jones]

Is there a ‘******* hilarious’ button?

Sure go ahead and press it.

 

[endure]

Yes i have heard of and probably read some of Harriet Sergeant, but I suspect that i dont need to read the book as, I doubt she can address the core issue, which is quite simply that some people should not breed, but they do. So until that is dealt with we are all just pissing money down the drain, and increasing the number of the the damaged and the feral wasters, not to mention the path towards criminality that is constainly feed into by uncontrolled breeding.

So eugenics is the answer? No thanks.

 

[Yokel]

Could low expectations be a result of people being fed negativity from family, the media, peers at school and so on, resulting in what might be termed learned helplessness? Combine that with the cult of celebrity and the culture of instant gratification, and you can see why things go wrong.

People need to be empowered by learning that they can do things.

 

[Banker]

Could low expectations be a result of people being fed negativity from family, the media, peers at school and so on, resulting in what might be termed learned helplessness?

Reminds me of:

A) look at that poor guy, no wonder he's drunk; or
B) look at that drunk guy, no wonder he's poor.

 

[S11Blade]

So eugenics is the answer? No thanks.

No. Just reduce child poverty by stopping paying those who can't afford to have children, to have children.

For doleys 'fell pregnant' is their version of promotion, both cash and house size. Then the left whine about kids born into poverty.

Earn enough money to provide for your kids, or don't have them.

 

[endure]

No. Just reduce child poverty by stopping paying those who can't afford to have children, to have children.

For doleys 'fell pregnant' is their version of promotion, both cash and house size. Then the left whine about kids born into poverty.

Earn enough money to provide for your kids, or don't have them.

Good luck with that.

 

[S11Blade]

Good luck with that.

We're already down to 2 max. Baby (or rather no baby) steps.

 

[endure]

Earn enough money to provide for your kids, or don't have them.

How about when hubby runs away and Mum is left to provide for 2 children?

 

[Gun_Brickie]

Are you happy being compelled to contribute to the highways budget if you don’t drive a car?

Are you happy being compelled to contribute to the NHS if you‘re fit and healthy and can afford private healthcare?

You might as well dismantle the state now and return to Victorian values of self help - all fine and dandy for those born with a decent start in life, but a self-perpetuating shitstorm for those less fortunate.

 

[Banker]

How about when hubby runs away and Mum is left to provide for 2 children?

Mate, those chimneys won't sweep themselves.

 

[lokiuk]

We're already down to 2 max. Baby (or rather no baby) steps.

No they can still have more than two kids, they state just doesn't pay for their lifestyle choice if want to keep popping them out like a baby factory

 

[halo_jones]

Are you happy being compelled to contribute to the highways budget if you don’t drive a car?

Are you happy being compelled to contribute to the NHS if you‘re fit and healthy and can afford private healthcare?

You might as well dismantle the state now and return to Victorian values of self help - all fine and dandy for those born with a decent start in life, but a self-perpetuating shitstorm for those less fortunate.

That is not my point. Rather that as long as society rewards failure, nothing will change my niece despite everything 'choose to fail' as outlined in the opening post. her first 2 children are now supported by the state, she is up the duff with another, likely also to be removed by social services if she comes to term... Do you think its right that she should continue to be a net drain on society, how many like her can we afford.

I do not believe that we should dismantle the welfare state, nor am i proposing such, but how can we have a welfare state when it is being pissed down the drain, trying to fund everything.

"We" keep being told that more money is required, to stop institutional failing that affect the disadvantaged. "We" have spent years and years and pot of money, after pot of money too deal with such issues, what has changed.

Very little because we continue to reward those who choose to have children when clearly they dont have the ability to care for them, but constantly its said in their defence 'its not there fault they have been failed, by the state'.

How many of what ever cohort you would like to site, have been a denied basic education by the state. Simply put you dont have to be educated to Phd standard to know, that children require a stable home and a lot of effort to bring them up, not to mention money. How many are choosing that path despite not having the time the money or the abilities.

That this is something that sadly is endemic, amongst some groups and celebrated by feckless men who claim the whole world is against them, thus they only have one choice that is to be a criminal. How long do you think society can sustain that.