The Big Question: Is the West winning in Afghanistan

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by PartTimePongo, Dec 17, 2008.

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  1. – and should more troops be sent?..

    Analysis continues here

    Could the answer be as simple as dismantling the ISI and taking advantage of the resultant chaos in the Taliban leadership?

    I admit , removing ISI in of itself is not simple, but is it the key?
  2. Is it because Taliban is now seen by the locals as the only true defender of Afghanistan against foreign invasion? And you can't defeat the local population.
  3. Is removing ISI even an option? How many troops would that take, especially since you would effectively be declaring all-out war on Pakistan. I doubt the rest of the Pakistani military would stand idly by while the West dismantles the ISI.
  4. Oooh sounds like a Young Officer Essay question

    Shall we start by defining "winning"
  5. No, the Pakistani leadership would need to dismantle the ISI. I think they did have a purge after 9/11 , or did they just say they did?

    More pressure needs to be brought to bear on the Pakistani Government to get ISI back on the leash. It almost feels like ISI are running their own private war, and not in conjunction with Pakforce in general.
  6. Removing the ISI could possibly (accidentally) lead to the collapse of the Pakistani state. Would that help us in any way in Afghanistan? I fear we may create another problem. Leaves open the question; what's there to win in Afghanistan?

    I still believe we should 1) try through tougher diplomacy to get Pakistan and India to sort out the most of their hostilities (part of the problem lies in there) and 2) assist/support the Pakistani government (or rather what's left of it) to keep it's own people in the NWF provinces under control. Thus may be helping them reforming the ISI.

    But who am i? Probably a very simplistic person.
  7. The Taliban are thoroughly intertwined with daily Afghani life. We need to supplant them. Renewed effort and more troops, sad to say.
  8. Hammer - nail: from what little I know, ISI seems to be the tail that wags the dog. It would be very difficult for the Pakistant government to dismantle an organisation as powerful and "dug in" as the ISI. Also, it would be very unpopular with the average Pakistani, who would see it as leaving the country more vulnerable to India...
  9. The difficulty is there will be people in ISI who see their role as getting Afghanistan into as peaceful a state as possible, and those who do not.

    There is also the vexing question of drug trafficking and corruption, and just how much influence that has on what the ISI do.

    I know for a fact, and it's probably on public record that most of the Horse that gets sold here, has Pakistani connections all over it. Are we bring acted against (allegedly) by ISI , because they want to protect their revenue stream?
  10. Why dont we just buy all the opium from the Afghan farmers ??
  11. Taliban was "defeated" in 2001 because locals en masse were not ecstatic about them.

    It doesn't matter what one does to Pakistan, for as long as NATO (or any other foreign force) will remain in Afghanistan, population of that country and peoples who associate themselves with Afghan culture be they on a territory of Pakistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan or Turkmenistan will support whoever is fighting the foreign occupation. Is NATO (after dealing with Pakistan) going to interfere in Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan as well?
  12. Because then the ISI would really get the hump :(

    But there is also the question of protecting the farmers from angry Druglords in the aftermath.
  13. One for the Coppers on ARRSE; I thought the Turks controlled most of the heroin trade in the UK :?
  14. I don't see many Turks in the Brumopolis...
  15. Fair one, PTP.

    In the end, this is all academic; the decision on how to act towards ISI/Pakistan won't be taken in this country. What Obama wants, Obama gets. He will have the final word on any action. Brown will just lie back like a good girl and enjoy it... :roll: