The Bible

Sure it wasn't just Quasimodo smoking in bed?
 
However I did see Pope Francis calling for donations and help with the rebuilding. As if the Catholic Church hasn't got enough in its coffers to either chip in a massive wad or pay for the whole thing. But as always they call out for the others to stump up.

The hypocrisy of the Roman Catholic hierarchy is immense, seeing meetings or gatherings in the Vatican with a horde of roly poly, red-sashed old men who haven't missed a meal in many years. To paraphrase Stephen Fry, when the Catholic Church sells off its vast holdings and uses it to alleviate poverty and starvation in the world then I will take them seriously.
Why be a priest if not to help others? Why believe in the Jesus of the Bible if you don't follow his words and teachings?
I've met a few dedicated priests, cracking blokes, who are focussed on their parish. But the political edifice of the Roman Church has very little to do with Christianity as far as I am concerned.
 
However I did see Pope Francis calling for donations and help with the rebuilding. As if the Catholic Church hasn't got enough in its coffers to either chip in a massive wad or pay for the whole thing. But as always they call out for the others to stump up.

The hypocrisy of the Roman Catholic hierarchy is immense, seeing meetings or gatherings in the Vatican with a horde of roly poly, red-sashed old men who haven't missed a meal in many years. To paraphrase Stephen Fry, when the Catholic Church sells off its vast holdings and uses it to alleviate poverty and starvation in the world then I will take them seriously.
Why be a priest if not to help others? Why believe in the Jesus of the Bible if you don't follow his words and teachings?
I've met a few dedicated priests, cracking blokes, who are focussed on their parish. But the political edifice of the Roman Church has very little to do with Christianity as far as I am concerned.

The words "Ponzi Scheme" come to mind.
 
Pity about the old building but it again raises the problem of religion. The places were people pray to sky pixies should be no more that historical curios. That people were praying to their imaginary entity as the thing was in flames is disturbing. That in this day and age so many fools are unable to reason the futility of faith.
 
Pity about the old building but it again raises the problem of religion. The places were people pray to sky pixies should be no more that historical curios. That people were praying to their imaginary entity as the thing was in flames is disturbing. That in this day and age so many fools are unable to reason the futility of faith.
That's amusing coming from someone who has absolute faith in the EU.
 
Pity about the old building but it again raises the problem of religion. The places were people pray to sky pixies should be no more that historical curios. That people were praying to their imaginary entity as the thing was in flames is disturbing. That in this day and age so many fools are unable to reason the futility of faith.

Fact of the day: We don't actually pray to 'sky pixies' in a church.
 
Pray do tell what it is that you actually do? :lol:
Well, primarily we offer our prayers and thanks to something we call 'God'. This God is essentially the first cause of everything, it's synonymous with existence itself, and is the source of reality. I prefer to think of it as analogous to the 'quantum field' that's everywhere and gives existence to subatomic particles, but can never be measured because it lies outside our means of direct observation. The natural world and reality must have a source, and we believe this is it.

When we celebrate Mass, we're essentially trying to honour and develop a sort of relationship between humanity and this God, through rituals that are transactional in nature.

Obviously this is entirely different to praying to 'sky pixies'.
 
Well, primarily we offer our prayers and thanks to something we call 'God'. This God is essentially the first cause of everything, it's synonymous with existence itself, and is the source of reality. I prefer to think of it as analogous to the 'quantum field' that's everywhere and gives existence to subatomic particles, but can never be measured because it lies outside our means of direct observation. The natural world and reality must have a source, and we believe this is it.

When we celebrate Mass, we're essentially trying to honour and develop a sort of relationship between humanity and this God, through rituals that are transactional in nature.

Obviously this is entirely different to praying to 'sky pixies'.
So you're praying to quantum mechanics?
 
So you're praying to quantum mechanics?
Well, the entity or the cause behind it. I'm only using the quantum field thing as an extremely vague analogy, rather than attempt to condense the arguments of Thomas Aquinas, but it's more accurate than the concept of God as some 'sky fairy' or beardy man on a throne.

And to tell you the truth, God is still a complete fcuking mystery to me.
 
Pity about the old building but it again raises the problem of religion. The places were people pray to sky pixies should be no more that historical curios. That people were praying to their imaginary entity as the thing was in flames is disturbing. That in this day and age so many fools are unable to reason the futility of faith.
I've always agreed with you about the dangers and absurdity of faith higgsy, and that won't change with regards to the loons who really do believe. However, I'm starting to think that mankind needs a foundation mythology in order to make sense of things. There are plenty of people who have no interest in religion but also have no understanding of science and believe other rubbish like astrology, horoscopes and wicca powers. Without this belief their lives would be empty so it does fill a vacuum and satisfy a need. As Pratchett said, 'humans need fantasy to be human, to be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.'

If we observe society today we can seen that many people are obsessed with fame, narcissism, money and shallow, trivial things. It may have ever been thus, but with the rise of technology I believe it's even more apparent. In order to be successful in life everything in the media and society suggests that you must be good looking, wealthy and sporty. Go into any secondary or private school in the land and this will be the case. Children are bombarded with this message, if you do not have all these things then you are generally perceived as a failure. This is nothing new, Orwell said the same about his school days.

"a continuous triumph of the strong over the weak. Virtue consisted in winning: it consisted in being bigger, stronger, handsomer, richer, more popular, more elegant, more unscrupulous than other people—in dominating them, bullying them, making them suffer pain, making them look foolish, getting the better of them in every way. Life was hierarchical and whatever happened was right. There were the strong, who deserved to win and always did win, and there were the weak, who deserved to lose and always did lose, everlastingly."

Such, Such Were the Joys, Orwell.

Whether you're a good person matters little. In my mind this must explain the extraordinary rise in mental health problems in recent years. Science tells us that there is no God, great! But then what is it all about, really, when you really get down to it? What's it all for? Without any greater purpose it all seems a great waste of time. This is why people fill in the gaps with the God of consumerism. The Kardashians are the new church. This also means that the younger generation can be anything they want to be, they have more freedom than ever before, but what exactly are they meant to be?

A foundation myth like the Iliad, Odyssey, the Epic of Gilgamesh or even the New Testament provide examples on how you're meant to live. All the myths tell you that courage, tolerance, integrity and wisdom are important. They tell you what it means to be a civilised man/woman, the dangers or hubris and why you shouldn't treat others badly. Society needs this stuff, it's probably why so many people feel lost, it may explain the enormous amount of male suicides in a world where men are no longer needed.

The entertainment industry has picked up on this psychological black hole. That's why marvel movies are so popular. The superheroes are all gods, one of them is the God Thor for crying out loud.

In short, we don't need mainstream religion, but we sure as hell need mainstream mythology.
 
Well, primarily we offer our prayers and thanks to something we call 'God'. This God is essentially the first cause of everything, it's synonymous with existence itself, and is the source of reality. I prefer to think of it as analogous to the 'quantum field' that's everywhere and gives existence to subatomic particles, but can never be measured because it lies outside our means of direct observation. The natural world and reality must have a source, and we believe this is it.

When we celebrate Mass, we're essentially trying to honour and develop a sort of relationship between humanity and this God, through rituals that are transactional in nature.

Obviously this is entirely different to praying to 'sky pixies'.
Praying to the unknown....with precisely the same effect as praying to a sky pixie.
 
I've always agreed with you about the dangers and absurdity of faith higgsy, and that won't change with regards to the loons who really do believe. However, I'm starting to think that mankind needs a foundation mythology in order to make sense of things. There are plenty of people who have no interest in religion but also have no understanding of science and believe other rubbish like astrology, horoscopes and wicca powers. Without this belief their lives would be empty so it does fill a vacuum and satisfy a need. As Pratchett said, 'humans need fantasy to be human, to be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.'

If we observe society today we can seen that many people are obsessed with fame, narcissism, money and shallow, trivial things. It may have ever been thus, but with the rise of technology I believe it's even more apparent. In order to be successful in life everything in the media and society suggests that you must be good looking, wealthy and sporty. Go into any secondary or private school in the land and this will be the case. Children are bombarded with this message, if you do not have all these things then you are generally perceived as a failure. This is nothing new, Orwell said the same about his school days.

"a continuous triumph of the strong over the weak. Virtue consisted in winning: it consisted in being bigger, stronger, handsomer, richer, more popular, more elegant, more unscrupulous than other people—in dominating them, bullying them, making them suffer pain, making them look foolish, getting the better of them in every way. Life was hierarchical and whatever happened was right. There were the strong, who deserved to win and always did win, and there were the weak, who deserved to lose and always did lose, everlastingly."
Such, Such Were the Joys, Orwell.


Whether you're a good person matters little. In my mind this must explain the extraordinary rise in mental health problems in recent years. Science tells us that there is no God, great! But then what is it all about, really, when you really get down to it? What's it all for? Without any greater purpose it all seems a great waste of time. This is why people fill in the gaps with the God of consumerism. The Kardashians are the new church. This also means that the younger generation can be anything they want to be, they have more freedom than ever before, but what exactly are they meant to be?

A foundation myth like the Iliad, Odyssey, the Epic of Gilgamesh or even the New Testament provide examples on how you're meant to live. All the myths tell you that courage, tolerance, integrity and wisdom are important. They tell you what it means to be a civilised man/woman, the dangers or hubris and why you shouldn't treat others badly. Society needs this stuff, it's probably why so many people feel lost, it may explain the enormous amount of male suicides in a world where men are no longer needed.

The entertainment industry has picked up on this psychological black hole. That's why marvel movies are so popular. The superheroes are all gods, one of them is the God Thor for crying out loud.

In short, we don't need mainstream religion, but we sure as hell need mainstream mythology.
Respect DC... The planet is in a complete mess but I see absolutely no evidence that religion is making it any better but an abundance of evidence to the contrary. Some of the most peaceful and law abiding countries are secular and I know from personal experience that religion is completely unnecessary. As for myths... It was identified a long time ago that facts are far more interesting than fiction, I'll go with that.
 
Praying to the unknown....with precisely the same effect as praying to a sky pixie.
Maybe. Maybe not. But celebrating Mass and actually practising Christianity gives one perspective, and reminds us there's something greater than humanity at work, and perhaps it doesn't give a fcuk about what we want as individuals. What I do know is there are consequences for going against God, and none of us have immunity to natural law. The Old Testament is about with stories of societies destroying themselves before people woke up and realised this.

As Dashing_Chap pointed out, we live in a society that believes individualism, consumerism, celebrity and immediate gratification are paramount. We're seeing the effects of that because there is something greater that society is going against. How long do you think civilisation could last without at least some mythology?


Respect DC... The planet is in a complete mess but I see absolutely no evidence that religion is making it any better but an abundance of evidence to the contrary. Some of the most peaceful and law abiding countries are secular and I know from personal experience that religion is completely unnecessary. As for myths... It was identified a long time ago that facts are far more interesting than fiction, I'll go with that.
The fact is anyone can identify as any gender and use the state to force others to acknowledge it. The fact is people can shag each other and have children without providing them a stable family environment. The fact is you can live an affluent lifestyle on debt.
We can use mythology to tell you why all the above aren't sustainable for a society.
 
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However I did see Pope Francis calling for donations and help with the rebuilding. As if the Catholic Church hasn't got enough in its coffers to either chip in a massive wad or pay for the whole thing. But as always they call out for the others to stump up.

The hypocrisy of the Roman Catholic hierarchy is immense, seeing meetings or gatherings in the Vatican with a horde of roly poly, red-sashed old men who haven't missed a meal in many years. To paraphrase Stephen Fry, when the Catholic Church sells off its vast holdings and uses it to alleviate poverty and starvation in the world then I will take them seriously.
Why be a priest if not to help others? Why believe in the Jesus of the Bible if you don't follow his words and teachings?
I've met a few dedicated priests, cracking blokes, who are focussed on their parish. But the political edifice of the Roman Church has very little to do with Christianity as far as I am concerned.
When Stephen Fry becomes your lodestar....
 
Praying to the unknown....with precisely the same effect as praying to a sky pixie.
God is pretty much outside our understanding, although the Bible makes some facets clear. But it is in Jesus you can start to see God’s nature in a way understandable to humanity. It was one of Jesus core roles - to make God knowable.
Of course Easter shows other reasons why Jesus came - forgiveness, salvation and the hope of eternal life. So have a great Easter.
 
Maybe. Maybe not. But celebrating Mass and actually practising Christianity gives one perspective, and reminds us there's something greater than humanity at work, and perhaps it doesn't give a fcuk about what we want as individuals. What I do know is there are consequences for going against God, and none of us have immunity to natural law. The Old Testament is about with stories of societies destroying themselves before people woke up and realised this.

As Dashing_Chap pointed out, we live in a society that believes individualism, consumerism, celebrity and immediate gratification are paramount. We're seeing the effects of that because there is something greater that society is going against. How long do you think civilisation could last without at least some mythology?




The fact is anyone can identify as any gender and use the state to force others to acknowledge it. The fact is people can shag each other and have children without providing them a stable family environment. The fact is you can live an affluent lifestyle on debt.
We can use mythology to tell you why all the above aren't sustainable for a society.
I have never celebrated mass and never will...do you honestly believe that there will be consequences? There is not a jot of tangible evidence to support heaven, hell, resurrections, demons, gods, miracles, goblins etc... There is none. All religious rituals are primitive and a complete waste of time. You can take any story from the bible and define your own meaning because it's man made babble. Better stories and works of philosophy can be found in other books. There is absolutely no necessity for myths of any kind, no more than there is a necessity for Noddy and Big Ears. Nothing to do with the survival of civilisation at all, a ridiculous notion.
 
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God is pretty much outside our understanding, although the Bible makes some facets clear. But it is in Jesus you can start to see God’s nature in a way understandable to humanity. It was one of Jesus core roles - to make God knowable.
Of course Easter shows other reasons why Jesus came - forgiveness, salvation and the hope of eternal life. So have a great Easter.
Utter bollocks...
 

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