The Baltics: should Britain be rushing to their defence?

And my article talks about those who want to leave, not those who have.
 
With reference to my previous posts on Belarus being a potential target - Just to add some more grist to the mill:
 
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And my article talks about those who want to leave, not those who have.
They are just sides of the same coin. To think to marry and to marry are different matters.
 
I’m not doubting that some who say they left, have in fact returned. More that emigration is in fact higher than your govt statistics. As the linked article says:
Correct. Statistics of emigration is not an easy thing. And it is hard to separate migrants and emigrants.
Anyway number of emigrants from Russia is no more than a few tens thousands and for Russia it is a drop in the ocean especially taking into account hundreds thousands immigrants.
Btw, some top Putin's propagandists are (according to EuroStat) could be regarded as emigrants. For example
Sergey Brilev has British citizenship and owns apartments on London
1580458371086.png

Vladimir Solovyov owns 2 houses in Italy and has residence permission in the country.
1580458483067.png


Let's close discussion about emigration from Russia and return to the theme of the thread.
Emigration from Latvia is an interesting subject not only because of its intensity. In many other high emigration countries, population is a redundant factor, but this is not the case in Latvia. Since the beginning of the twenty-first century, loss of population due to emigration has been reinforced by negative natural change in all three Baltic countries, as well as in Bulgaria and Romania (Fig. 3.1). In 17 years (2000–2016), Latvia and Lithuania have lost the largest population shares (about 20%) among EU countries. Moreover, Latvia and Lithuania are among the top three countries (after Bulgaria) with the largest negative natural population changes during this period.
1580457490606.png

So should Britain be rushing to defend the Baltic states where population tries to flee?
 
Correct. Statistics of emigration is not an easy thing. And it is hard to separate migrants and emigrants.
Especially if your govt fails to acknowledge who is leaving and who is not
Anyway number of emigrants from Russia is no more than a few tens thousands and for Russia it is a drop in the ocean especially taking into account hundreds thousands immigrants.
Those immigrants aren’t getting citizenship though: Is Russia on the brink of a migration crisis? (see below)
Btw, some top Putin's propagandists are (according to EuroStat) could be regarded as emigrants. For example
Sergey Brilev has British citizenship and owns apartments on London
View attachment 446918
Vladimir Solovyov owns 2 houses in Italy and has residence permission in the country.
View attachment 446919
And?
Let's close discussion about emigration from Russia and return to the theme of the thread.
Close your response as you don’t like trying to defend Russian youth aspiration?

View attachment 446917
So should Britain be rushing to defend the Baltic states where population tries to flee?
I'm not sure why you have the same discussion? We are where we are with the Baltic’s in NATO and the U.K. is eFP in Estonia.

E2A: To add link:
State statistics that were presented by researchers of the Presidential Academy of National Economy and Public Administration show that in 2018 the inflow of migrants decreased almost two-fold for the first nine months of the year compared with the previous year (which, according to the OECD, also witnessed a 19 percent drop in the number of migrants). At a recent gathering of experts at the Gaidar Forum in Moscow, the overall number of migrants to Russia in 2018 was estimated at 120-125,000.
 
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Especially if your govt fails to acknowledge who is leaving and who is not
I believe that here the main problem is in definitions. who should be regarded as migrant or emigrant.
Let's recall some Putin's propagandists. Of course they are not emigrants or even migrants but according to Eurostat they are. It is, I repeat it, the question of definitions and methodology.
Close your response as you don’t like trying to defend Russian youth aspiration?
I understand why so many young Russians wish to emigrate. Economic stagnation on the background of high corruption and social inequality... there are too many problems in Russia and it is quite natural to expect aspirations to find better life abroad. But real level of emigration is not that huge as one could expect, anyway in comparison with other countries.
It is not logical to discuss migration/immigration/emigration problems in Russian on this thread. However, I'm ready to any discussion and would like to comment your source.
First of all, I strongly doubt that there is migration crisis in Russia.
Rosstat breaks all migrants into two main categories: long-term, those who intend to stay permanently in Russia and are registered for more than 9 months; and those who are temporary. The figure mentioned above (120-125,000 migrants) pertain to the first category, while the second group is significantly larger: 9-10 million people.
Russia and especially big cities as Moscow are overcrowded by migrants. They are everywhere. Personnel of business center where I work - cleaners, for example are mostly low-paid migrants from Central Asia.
while a great many are registered as “temporary” with Russian authorities and listed as such in statistics, “a lot of them live here for years,”
Yes, it's right. Permanent registration is not so easy thing. Migrant needs to have stable work for it.
They just do not apply for permanent status because it’s a highly complicated and time-consuming procedure. Instead, they regularly leave and return to Russia.
Yes, it is right.
Those who already have permission for temporary residency in Russia (more than 1 year) number 1.1 million, and they will soon become citizens. Hence, there is a pool of millions of people who can relatively easily become long-term residents, and eventually citizens, thus alleviating the demographic situation.
Hundreds thousands (if not millions) of Ukrainian citizens and other Russian speaking people from post-Soviet countries got Russian citizenship.
The state lacks a clear-cut and comprehensive vision of migration, researchers argue.
Agreed.
In fact I agree with all main points made in the article.
 
I believe that here the main problem is in definitions. who should be regarded as migrant or emigrant.
Let's recall some Putin's propagandists. Of course they are not emigrants or even migrants but according to Eurostat they are. It is, I repeat it, the question of definitions and methodology.
Definitions and methodology. You’ll be saying ‘lies, damn lies and statistics’ next.
I understand why so many young Russians wish to emigrate. Economic stagnation on the background of high corruption and social inequality... there are too many problems in Russia and it is quite natural to expect aspirations to find better life abroad. But real level of emigration is not that huge as one could expect, anyway in comparison with other countries.
It is not logical to discuss migration/immigration/emigration problems in Russian on this thread. However, I'm ready to any discussion and would like to comment your source.
You can always move it to your ‘dedicated’ thread. Plus, we can then discuss the rise and possible reasons, many of which you capture above.
First of all, I strongly doubt that there is migration crisis in Russia.
One part you disagree with....
Russia and especially big cities as Moscow are overcrowded by migrants. They are everywhere. Personnel of business center where I work - cleaners, for example are mostly low-paid migrants from Central Asia.

Yes, it's right. Permanent registration is not so easy thing. Migrant needs to have stable work for it.

Yes, it is right.

Hundreds thousands (if not millions) of Ukrainian citizens and other Russian speaking people from post-Soviet countries got Russian citizenship.

Agreed.
....The rest you don’t.
In fact I agree with all main points made in the article.
It’s a pro Russia site and probably just the headline you disagree with as you had already made up your mind.
 
Definitions and methodology. You’ll be saying ‘lies, damn lies and statistics’ next.

You can always move it to your ‘dedicated’ thread. Plus, we can then discuss the rise and possible reasons, many of which you capture above.

One part you disagree with....

....The rest you don’t.

It’s a pro Russia site and probably just the headline you disagree with as you had already made up your mind.
I would like to make some points.
I commented the source proposed by you. Next time don't choose pro Russia sites and that's all.
The title of the article ends by question mark. I just proposed my answer to the question.
As for the text of the article than I agree with all main points. If you disagree with something then let me know, we could discuss it.
As for 'lie, damn lies and statistics' then indeed frequently statistics look more terrible than damn lies. Is it its natural feature. Accept it.
 
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I would like to make some points.
I commented the source proposed by you. Next time don't choose pro Russia sites and that's all.
Are you drunk? Or is it another ’Sergey’? I chose a site that gave an example that you in fact agreed with
The title of the article ends by question mark. I just proposed my answer to the question.
It does ask a question. You agree with all points, but say it’s not ‘a crisis’
As for the text of the article than I agree with all main points. If you disagree with something then let me know, we could discuss it.
But you think it’s the wrong subject for the thread and I queried moving to your ‘dedicated’ thread.
As for 'lie, damn lies and statistics' then indeed frequently statistics look more terrible than doms lies. Is it its natural feature. Accept it.
:) perhaps your edit will make more sense?
 
Are you drunk? Or is it another ’Sergey’? I chose a site that gave an example that you in fact agreed with

It does ask a question. You agree with all points, but say it’s not ‘a crisis’

But you think it’s the wrong subject for the thread and I queried moving to your ‘dedicated’ thread.

:) perhaps your edit will make more sense?
I'm not drunk. And you?
There is only one person who posts under nick KGB_resident. It's me.
I agree with something and do you disagree with anything in the article? You avoid a direct answer. It is your right.
I regard the title as rhetorical question and my answer doesn't contradict to any point in the article.
As for the correct thread where the issue should, could and likely would be addressed then I agree with you.
As for unfortunate typos made due to fat fingers lack of attention then ... corrected.
 
I'm not drunk. And you?
Rarely, I drive long’ish distances too much
There is only one person who posts under nick KGB_resident. It's me.
Okay...
I agree with something and do you disagree with anything in the article? You avoid a direct answer. It is your right.
I regard the title as rhetorical question and my answer doesn't contradict to any point in the article.
I used it to emphasise a point. You disagree with the query in the headline, but everything in the article.
As for the correct thread where the issue should, could and likely would be addressed then I agree with you.
As for unfortunate typos made due to fat fingers lack of attention then ... corrected.
Nobody has a problem with minor edits for spelling. Adding new content, emphasis etc., it’s only polite to say so imo
 
The following story covers three separate issues, the bottom bit of the article being the one which is relevant to this thread. Canada's foreign minister will be visiting eastern Europe next week, including Latvia.
Foreign Affairs Minister François-Philippe Champagne to visit Latvia, Ukraine and Poland next week
Latvia's ambassador to Canada would like to see Canada's troop deployment extended beyond the currently planned end in 2023.
In Latvia, Champagne will visit the 600 Canadian troops who have been leading a NATO battlegroup in that country since 2017. The mission is to continue until 2023.

Karlis Eihenbaums, Latvia's ambassador to Canada, said his country would like to see that mission extended because the problems with Russia, including its ongoing disinformation campaigns, show no signs of abating.
Champagne said in a statement that security will be on the discussion list, so he may possibly have an announcement in this regards.
"My visits to Latvia, Ukraine and Poland will be important opportunities to discuss the close ties between Canada and these three countries and our shared priority of promoting security and prosperity in the region in the face of rising threats," Champagne said in a statement Friday.
 
Published by: RAF NEWS/MoD, on 16 April 2020.

Baltic Air Policing in Lithuania

Royal Air Force Augments NATO Baltic Air Policing in Lithuania


Returning to Siauliai Air Base after six years, the Royal Air Force will augment NATO’s peacetime mission here with a 150 strong Typhoon detachment conducting another deployment of Operation AZOTIZE.


“The RAF has been a regular guest of our Baltic colleagues, this is the sixth time the United Kingdom has deployed on this Air Policing mission. The RAF was the third NATO member to conduct what was then a brand-new Allied mission of Baltic Air Policing here at Šiauliai, in 2004, I look forward to commanding the latest RAF detachment to conduct this important NATO mission, where we will demonstrate NATO’s collective resolve and assurance for our eastern Allies, As well as showing that the United Kingdom remains a leading NATO member that is reliable and well-connected.”
Wing Commander Stu Gwinnutt
RAF detachment commander
Formed around number 6 Squadron based at RAF Lossiemouth, Scotland, the Typhoon detachment is augmented by specialist personnel from across the RAF to ensure that the detachment is able to operate and meet its operational taskings. The RAF have previously deployed to the Baltic region during 2014, 2016, 2016 and 2019 as a the second Air Policing detachment under enhanced Air Policing. Additionally, the RAF has conducted NATO AP missions in the skies of Romania and Iceland, demonstrating Allied cooperation, interoperability and cohesion.

NATO’s Air Policing is a peacetime collective mission safeguarding the integrity of the Allies’ airspace. All Allies contribute to this collective mission bringing a system of radar sites and air surveillance and control units as well as fighter aircraft together under the coordination of Allied Air Command. Via its two Combined Air Operation Centres at Uedem, Germany, and Torrejon, Spain, the Allies have successfully cooperated and ensure one single standard of Air Policing across NATO airspace in Europe. Allies without necessary air capabilities of their own e.g. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, are integrated into Air Policing by deploying Allied fighter detachments.

 
Published by: RAF NEWS/MoD, on 16 April 2020.

Baltic Air Policing in Lithuania

Royal Air Force Augments NATO Baltic Air Policing in Lithuania


Returning to Siauliai Air Base after six years, the Royal Air Force will augment NATO’s peacetime mission here with a 150 strong Typhoon detachment conducting another deployment of Operation AZOTIZE.



Formed around number 6 Squadron based at RAF Lossiemouth, Scotland, the Typhoon detachment is augmented by specialist personnel from across the RAF to ensure that the detachment is able to operate and meet its operational taskings. The RAF have previously deployed to the Baltic region during 2014, 2016, 2016 and 2019 as a the second Air Policing detachment under enhanced Air Policing. Additionally, the RAF has conducted NATO AP missions in the skies of Romania and Iceland, demonstrating Allied cooperation, interoperability and cohesion.

NATO’s Air Policing is a peacetime collective mission safeguarding the integrity of the Allies’ airspace. All Allies contribute to this collective mission bringing a system of radar sites and air surveillance and control units as well as fighter aircraft together under the coordination of Allied Air Command. Via its two Combined Air Operation Centres at Uedem, Germany, and Torrejon, Spain, the Allies have successfully cooperated and ensure one single standard of Air Policing across NATO airspace in Europe. Allies without necessary air capabilities of their own e.g. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, are integrated into Air Policing by deploying Allied fighter detachments.

With all the airports closed should be quite easy to identify friend from foe... ;)
 
Especially if your govt fails to acknowledge who is leaving and who is not

Those immigrants aren’t getting citizenship though: Is Russia on the brink of a migration crisis? (see below)

And?

Close your response as you don’t like trying to defend Russian youth aspiration?

I'm not sure why you have the same discussion? We are where we are with the Baltic’s in NATO and the U.K. is eFP in Estonia.

E2A: To add link:
In the 90s there was a big influx of Russians into Germany, the story is a bit too complex for this thread, but those Russians are still here and have of course raised families here. None of them appear to be in any hurry to return, not even for a holiday.
 

offog

LE
In the 90s there was a big influx of Russians into Germany, the story is a bit too complex for this thread, but those Russians are still here and have of course raised families here. None of them appear to be in any hurry to return, not even for a holiday.
There was a reporter doing interviews about 18 months 2 years ago from one of the baltic countries with a town on the border with a very high Russian ethnic population (may have been Estonia and Narva). He was talking to one guy looking across the border to Russia and the war mongering and saber rattling that wa going on there. The reporter asked does he fleal Russian and he answered yes. Do you want to be part of Russia, definitely not, life is so much better here.

Edited to add.
Not the report I saw but very much along the same lines.

 
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There was a reporter doing interviews about 18 months 2 years ago from one of the baltic countries with a town on the border with a very high Russian ethnic population (may have been Estonia and Narva). He was talking to one guy looking across the border to Russia and the war mongering and saber rattling that wa going on there. The reporter asked does he fleal Russian and he answered yes. Do you want to be part of Russia, definitely not, life is so much better here.

Edited to add.
Not the report I saw but very much along the same lines.

I think it was a BBC report from Rezekne, Latvia.

They know which side their bread is buttered.
 
Published by: RAF NEWS/MoD, on 16 April 2020.

Baltic Air Policing in Lithuania

Royal Air Force Augments NATO Baltic Air Policing in Lithuania


Returning to Siauliai Air Base after six years, the Royal Air Force will augment NATO’s peacetime mission here with a 150 strong Typhoon detachment conducting another deployment of Operation AZOTIZE.



Formed around number 6 Squadron based at RAF Lossiemouth, Scotland, the Typhoon detachment is augmented by specialist personnel from across the RAF to ensure that the detachment is able to operate and meet its operational taskings. The RAF have previously deployed to the Baltic region during 2014, 2016, 2016 and 2019 as a the second Air Policing detachment under enhanced Air Policing. Additionally, the RAF has conducted NATO AP missions in the skies of Romania and Iceland, demonstrating Allied cooperation, interoperability and cohesion.

NATO’s Air Policing is a peacetime collective mission safeguarding the integrity of the Allies’ airspace. All Allies contribute to this collective mission bringing a system of radar sites and air surveillance and control units as well as fighter aircraft together under the coordination of Allied Air Command. Via its two Combined Air Operation Centres at Uedem, Germany, and Torrejon, Spain, the Allies have successfully cooperated and ensure one single standard of Air Policing across NATO airspace in Europe. Allies without necessary air capabilities of their own e.g. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, are integrated into Air Policing by deploying Allied fighter detachments.

Tanya and Olga will be a common name about the married patch soon?
 

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